Originally Posted By Goofyernmost DygDisney...You aren't wrong, it's more of a statement of what parts of the bible people gravitate too. And in most cases we will all naturally hold as sacred the parts that most closely fits how we feel about something. If you're looking for justification for your actions, you find a convenient chapter and verse, that fits and there you have a religious backup for whatever your actions might be. A perfect case in point is the eye for an eye portion. It does, in my mind, mean that you don't dole out retribution to any higher a degree then what was given to you. However, it, in any form, is a direct contradiction with the parts that say you shouldn't react at all. So, it depends on how you read it and where ones head is at that point, what section you are reading and how you want it to support your standing. In other words, useless.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Actually, on this one, the Christian perspective (if you actually follow Jesus) is pretty clear. An eye for an eye is OT, and did indeed refer to not exceeding the wrong done to you in retribution. But Jesus says even this is too much, and specifically brings up the old OT passage in order to refute it. "You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. Love for Enemies You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven." You can, of course, live by this in your own life or not, and not many people can. But the meaning here is pretty hard to miss, especially as Jesus takes pains to bring up the initial OT passage.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<Does the Mormon church leaves out all of Christ's teaching about turn the other cheek, those who live by the sword die by the sword, love your enemies, etc?Christ was the ultimate pacifist -- shouldn't "Christians" be as well?>> No. The doctrine of "as I have loved you, love one another" and "love thy neighbor as thyself" is taught, just as they are taught in most protestant churches. But, like most churches, these principles are usually ignored when it it becomes inconvenient. They attend church and pat each other on their backs reinforcing their deluded perception of their personal righteousness, but woefully ignore the crux of Christ's ministry in practice. It truly is a Wonderland-esque world where right is wrong and wrong is right. <<The LDS Church has morphed from what was once a very passive faith in the twentieth century, to a much more Republicanesque type of faith.>> Most protestant churches have likewise become partisan to some degree. I don't think the LDS church is too far from mainstream Christianity in this regard.
Originally Posted By Ivan first off beer is good tasting. I like Europe beer because they know how to brew and send it to us. and it is not dangerous
Originally Posted By Ivan and keep bashing others religions and see what will fall upon you. I have been born for a second time by the grace and blood of Jesus and we welcome all into our fear and love of the lord. so knock off the monkey business or I will report abuse to the overseers Ivan
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Originally Posted By fkurucz <i>Most protestant churches have likewise become partisan to some degree. I don't think the LDS church is too far from mainstream Christianity in this regard.</i> It depends on your definition of "mainstream Christianity". Mainline protestant denominations and the RCC most definitely are not on the pro war/pro gun bandwagon, unlike their Protestant Fundamentalist cousins.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer I never understood why a Christian would fear death since the very heart of the faith is that they are going to have eternal life with God. Early Christians understood this - martyrdom was not pleasant, but it was just a brief moment of pain on the way to life everlasting. Why fight so hard to reject God's gift? Unless deep down inside you doubt it.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer But why protect it? From a Christian perspective, our time on earth is such a tiny part of our eternal lives. 70 years out of an eternity is so tiny it might as well not even exist at all. I wonder how much we'd actually remember about it in a few million years. I can barely remember more than a few things from elementary school and that was only a few decades ago for me. I don't think that you can read and follow the New Testament and have guns for self defense. Hunting, yes, but not self defense. It shows a lack of firm commitment to the faith. "I believe in life everlasting, but I'm going to shoot anyone who threatens me just to hedge my bets.)
Originally Posted By SuperDry << Protecting Life is not the same as Fearing Death. >> What do you think about the notion of using deadly force to protect property? It seems that the more Red a state is, the more popular this idea is. But it would seem to fly in the face of protecting life.
Originally Posted By Donny Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked. Proverbs 24:11 Deliver those who are drawn toward death, And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter. Luke 22:35-39 And He said to them, "When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?" So they said, "Nothing." 36 Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 "For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: 'And He was numbered with the transgressors.' For the things concerning Me have an end." 38 So they said, "Lord, look, here are two swords." And He said to them, "It is enough." 39 Coming out, He went to the Mount of Olives, as He was accustomed, and His disciples also followed Him. Here's the context. Picture this. Jesus and his disciples have just had communion. They are about to go to a time of prayer in the garden. Jesus says these words to His disciples, and it's as if they are saying, "Look what we have with us, Lord. Two guns!" Jesus responds, "It is enough."
Originally Posted By TomSawyer And then the disciples pull their swords in Gethsemane and cut off a priest's ear, and Jesus says, "No more of this! Put away your swords" and heals the man.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Us Mormons are likely to defend our faith, families, and country due to the example of Captain Moroni: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Moroni" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...n_Moroni</a> "Known for his revolutionary strategies in all realms of military tactics, safety, and precaution, he kept the people physically safe, while praying, guiding and leading his armies by divine intervention, he was able to keep his people out of the hands of his enemy while seeing to their needs physically and spiritually. He was also known by his people for his firm ideology and integrity and willingness to support the causes of personal freedom gaining the people's trust and never failed them."
Originally Posted By velo >>Here's the context. Picture this. Jesus and his disciples have just had communion. They are about to go to a time of prayer in the garden. Jesus says these words to His disciples, and it's as if they are saying, "Look what we have with us, Lord. Two guns!" Jesus responds, "It is enough."<< Sorry, NO. I'm not picturing that AT ALL.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Yes, but why, Josh? Victory over death has already been won. The devil is already defeated. That is what Easter is all about. There's nothing left to fight over - all that is left to do is to spread this good news to the world. We don't need to fight the devil or the forces of evil. They lost when Christ rose. That's the whole point of Christianity.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Just because death has been beaten by Christ, doesn't mean life on earth isn't valuable. We are here on earth to learn, grow, love, and experience it. If someone tries to interrupt that gift of God, we have a responsibility to defend it. <We don't need to fight the devil or the forces of evil. They lost when Christ rose. > I'm still fighting him every day, with Christ's help.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer But if life on earth is valuable, why take lives in order to defend its value? Or is it only valuable for people on our side?
Originally Posted By utahjosh <But if life on earth is valuable, why take lives in order to defend its value?> It would be the last option, of course. But if an aggressor had an evil agenda of killing my child, I would kill the aggressor if it is my only option to save my child. Wouldn't you?
