Originally Posted By ChiMike >>So now take your experience at the Drake and compare it to say GF, and you can see why I do not think the WDW resorts are 5 star resorts ( or 4 ) -.<< I would agree. GF on it's best of days is a 4. Solid 3. Disney really has gone from being a three and then four (not counting FT.W) resort operation where they could heavily focus on providing a one-of-a-kind experience to really being put to shame by the big boys in the industry. How anybody can say with a straight face that Disney lodging is the pinnacle of first-class service is beyond me. It's a comfortable way of staying at Disney theme parks for multiple days.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Yes it is ( and isn't it the cat's meow ! ) - however it's also not in Florida
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<How anybody can say with a straight face that Disney lodging is the pinnacle of first-class service is beyond me. It's a comfortable way of staying at Disney theme parks for multiple days. >> If you have never ever walked into a true 5 star hotel/ resort. Then I'm sure that resorts like GF, really seem to be world class. And I'm sure for the majority of Americans if you asked them to name a 5 star resort they couldn't name one. Let alone ever have stayed in one. A lot of people have no idea what really good service is actually like at a hotel.
Originally Posted By ChiMike And that's completely understandable KT. On a side tangent, there is the dilemma though that the Yacht Club or the GF were better operated for less of a charge. That prices have gone up and service has gone down. Of course to avoid being upset about that is to stop visiting. I have never been under any other assumption that the entire collection of resorts are basically "theme park lodging" Very nice theme park lodging. I and others are just holding out hope that there will be an uptick in the service that used to exist. So when somebody, and I don't think anybody really did on lp.com, might reference that resort A or restaurant B is world class, there will probably be comparisons of justifications. I am more guilty than anyone.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I'll just say that this discussion is heading into two tangents ... one is what is a 5-star/diamond property and I absolutely agree that Disney doesn't have any and that only about half its deluxes qualify for 4-star/diamonds (in my ratings, not the ratings folks) ... the other is what makes a world class/destination resort. There are only two places I've stayed that I feel are both -- Bellagio (which is a AAA 5-diamond winner) and the Venetian in Las Vegas. But I never expect that level of service at a resort like WDW, that caters to the masses. I do feel that every one of their deluxe resort should be run and offer services of a high 4-star/diamond property. From the great improvements I'm seeing at the WL (as well as the Contemp and Poly), I'm hopeful that this move upscale is the start of a trend.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<But I never expect that level of service at a resort like WDW>> Some do expect this kind of service especially when you are paying $350 + per night for a room you expect much much better service. And especially when you are staying at Disney's Flagship resorts like the GF. Disney certainly IS trying to accomidate the "American Express Black Card Crowd". Of course those people are still summering at Lake Lombardi in Italy. Why should Disney pretend? <<that caters to the masses. The majority of which A) Have certainly NEVER been on the property of a five star in their lives, B) Wouldn't know what a five star property is if it landed on them, C) Have never walked through the lobby of a hotel where a minumum of 20 employees are asking you if you need any assistance. <<I do feel that every one of their deluxe resort should be run and offer services of a high 4-star/diamond property.>> Yes at the very least Disney should be offering the "amenities" and services of a 4 star. Its a little late in my opinion to make the rooms and bathrooms larger. And you will never convinence me that the quality of food in the Deluxe Hotels/ Resorts is "world class fare". Its not. For the amount of money Disney is charging for their dinning selection is should be.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Have you ever eaten at the Napa Rose Tom? I would certainly say that is world class and cheap. Three Courses at the Napa Rose with Wine Pairings - about $75 The Ivy in London £80 excluding beverages. Gordon Ramsey's at Claridges $120 each excluding wine (starts at $50 a bottle). Napa Rose is far better IMHO!!!
Originally Posted By ChiMike I would agree that the Napa Rose is a very, very good place to dine. I would say it is at least better in these abstract terms than the California Grill.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>Why should Disney pretend?<< They are not pretending at all, as they very much know the types of guests they get at WDW on a regular basis, reason why the product quality has decreased some in the past decade.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom No I have never been to Disneyland in my life. I'm hoping to change that this July as I plan on attending next years big LP meet. Many of WDW cooks went to school at Johnson and Wales College in Providence, RI. Since I spent the first 30 years of my life in the Providence area I have had the opportunity to sample many of the culinary dishes from some of that schools chefs. I really do miss my clubbing days with the Johnson and Wales crowd. 25 cent drafts at the Rocket ( now club Babyhead ). Those were the days. Back to the topic. Given the number of resaurants on property you would think that individuals like us could name a vast number or resaurants on property that offer a large variety or food choices, not only impecable service but also memorable meals. I really don't see that going on. For the most part I see food that is primarily mediocre as best. Now to be fair I have never eaten at the Cali grill, V&V, Boma, Jinko or Artist Point. But when those are the only resaurants people like us can name... that not saying much for Disney. And look at the price of the meals at those restaurants. $45 for smoked salmon at Artist Point. We're not talking about Venice Italy here. We're talking about Orlando. That's outlandish pricing. Pricing that I would pay IF I believed I was getting a dinning experience worth of that price. The problem is I don't believe I am getting a dinning experience worth of that price. So, I'll stick with my blueberry lowfat yogurt for breakfast. Grabbing a sandwich on the go for lunch. And perhaps something light back at the resort for dinner. I can go on and on about the overpriced, mediocre service and predominantly run of the mill food found on the WDW property. For the most part you can find a larger variety on the menu and better quality food at Cracker Barrel and Macaroni Grill. Does Disney think we are all eating at McDees? Here in Atlanta most white collar people are eating in upscale eateries. These cafes and restaurants compete against each other so they have to be good and offer "better" service. When anything off the menu of Macroni Grill, Ted's or Cracker Barrel easily surpasses most every dish available in WDW even in the upscale restaurants. Then that doesn't make the food choices available at WDW "World Class".
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo "I have never eaten at the Cali grill, V&V, Boma, Jinko or Artist Point" Oh Tom, you need to rectify this. Also add Citricos, Spoodles and the Yacht Club. However, guys, I think maybe British food must suck. I was at a Dinner party the other night with some very seasoned executives and an elected official. WE started talking about our planned trip to WDW in November, and they all said we must eat at Wolfgang Pucks, "it's awesome". I was kind of surprised, given that although I like WP, I would never say it's awesome!
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom And WDW definately needs a Cajun restaurant. I think my taste in food is different from others in the US. Growing up in New England all our vegtables are very flavorful ( due to the acid rain ). And myabe I'm just use to good home cooked country food. I'm sure Disney's chefs have the talent. Is it really saving Disney that much to cut back on the spices and vegtables necessary to really create world class meals?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Ok, now Disney is a bargain at times. I just got back from a national conference. I stayed at a Holiday Inn on the seafront, and it was ok, but nothing special. My rate of $210 a night was ok for what it was. But the rack rate - $550 a night!!!! AKL is a definate bargain in comparison.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom How big was your room? Did the hotel use fabric softner? Did the hotel change the towels daily? Where the hotel staff evhibit engaging or avoidant behaviors? Did the hotel staff know english as a second language? Were you provided with Ivory Snow soap? Was the water coming out of your shower, tap smell and taste like swamp water?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo How big was your room? Smaller than Dixie Landings Rooms Did the hotel use fabric softner? No Did the hotel change the towels daily? No Where the hotel staff evhibit engaging or avoidant behaviors? They Were very good. Did the hotel staff know english as a second language? Yes, Polish was the 1st language of many of them. Were you provided with Ivory Snow soap? Squeezy bottle attached to the wall. Was the water coming out of your shower, tap smell and taste like swamp water? Thankfully,no. I know you were joking here, and indeed I will concede that WDW resorts are not 5 star hotels (this holiday Inn was considered 4), but by European standards, WDW offers fantastic value for money.
Originally Posted By CMM1 The scale for what constitutes a "world class resort" has to include some kind of factoring in of that resort's location - you could have the finest hotel in the world smack in the middle of Death Valley but if there was not much to do there then who would care? WDW resorts like the GF or the Yacht and Beach Club or the AKL are most likely considered "world class" by those that are looking for a nice place to stay IN WDW - you can't disconnect that "superior geographical component" from the equation.
