Originally Posted By fkurucz >>The money they put back into society is very minimal.<< Plus they take out a lot: education for their kids, unpaid medical bills, many get foodstamps, etc. >>Although the stereotype is that Republicans are anti-immigrant<< That's a knee slapper. They love the cheap labor illegals provide, which is why they drag their feet when it comes to enforcing rules at the workplace. Illegal immigrant round ups at workplaces are few a nd far between, and usually only happen during election season. Both political parties LOVE illegals.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>This country wouldn't exist as a country if it weren't for immigration,<< Immigration makes sense if its controlled and we let in the kind of people (educated) that this country needs. What we are doing is we make the right people jump through hoops and make them wait years, while we allow uneducated illegals a free pass. I still cannot comprehend why importing poverty is good for the US. This isn't the wild west anymore. There's 300 million of us and as we all aready know we as a nation already consume more than our fair share of the world's resources. The last thing we need is a ballooning population. Here were I live we are constantly fretting over fresh water supplies. That last thing we need is for our population to continue growing. By some projections in another 30 years my state will grow over 50%. Where will the resources come from?
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Americans talk about capitalism and free markets this and best man for the job that, but they LOVE protectionist policies. Ask that auto industry how that worked out.<< Correction. Globalist businessmen who have no allegiance to the USA love to talk about free markets. The little guy just wants a job that pays a living wage.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Immigration is without doubt a serious social problem; a problem both sides enjoy fighting over. But, it is also a problem nobody really wants to deal with..at least on the Federal level. You know, like addressing the shortfall in social security and those types of unimportant issues.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Punish employers who hire illegals.> That's the single best way to deal with this issue. And the one least likely to happen.
Originally Posted By Marlin Perkins Just a few points I want to make: 1) I hate partisan politics. The Democrat vs Republican BS is getting really really old, and now, quite frankly, is destroying our country. 2) Every person in the world should be provided a decent chance to come here legally and perhaps then wouldn't feel the need to come here illegally. 3) I am sick of hearing the argument that illegal aliens perform jobs that Americans will not do. That is simply because these poor son of a beeches are working for near-slave wages while living in slums. Corporate farms and several other industries want to keep the status quo. Heaven forbid they should be forced to pay a liveable wage. 4) There seem to be a lot of people with crystal balls. I have no idea what will happen with this law. If problems arise, then it should, and will be dealt with. In the meantime, it's all speculation and political positioning...again. 5) Does ANYONE actually like or respect Rev. Al Sharpton anymore?
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Plus they take out a lot: education for their kids, unpaid medical bills, many get foodstamps, etc.*** And many of them are murderers! Well, that's what a right winger wrote on Facebook, anyway. Except she skipped all that other stuff. Just "these illegals are poring (sic) over our borders, and many of them are murderers!".
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "Actually, with the exception of spokker, I don't know anyone who has said illegal immigration isn't a problem." It's a problem if we don't allow illegal immigrants the option obtain an education, especially for California.
Originally Posted By pecos bill Mr X, I daresay that from the confines of Japan it is pretty easy for you to condemn the positions of those of us in the states who say enough is enough. The people who are crossing our borders illegally are not the cream of the crop, and many thousands of them are indeed criminals of a very violent nature. In fact, the corrupt government of Mexico is encouraging this exodus to rid itself of what it considers surplus population, as well as bringing in American dollars. This is not the America of the past, we are in crisis mode, and millions of illegal immigrants are not helping, but rather hindering that situation. Our social services are at the breaking point, something has to be done.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Our social services are at the breaking point, something has to be done.*** Can't you just raise taxes on the wealthy?
Originally Posted By ecdc >>It's a problem if we don't allow illegal immigrants the option obtain an education, especially for California.<< No argument here. I think it's a complex problem - but a problem nonetheless. It does impact the American economy, and it does stress our infrastructure. But this law misses the point, and I do think education and providing basic services makes sense. I think enforcement at the employment level probably does make the most sense.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Can't you just raise taxes on the wealthy?<< Quiet, Comrade Krushchev! Don't give away the game plan or these capitalist dogs will catch on to Dur Führer's plans! Comrade Obama was carefully raised in far away Kenya just to prepare for this moment.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones " It does impact the American economy, and it does stress our infrastructure." Some studies have shown that it negatively impacts the wages of high school drop outs significantly, but not that much among other groups. Just sayin'...
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub If anybody is in a foreign country aren't they required to carry their passport identification at all times? Would that be a hassle for U.S. citizens?
Originally Posted By Mr X People traveling in foreign countries aren't citizens, and are subject to local laws and statutes regarding travel documents. For example, in Japan any resident alien or tourist must carry a passport or alien registration card at all times. Citizens of Japan, however, are under no such legal obligation. As it should be.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<<If anybody is in a foreign country aren't they required to carry their passport identification at all times? >>> It depends on the country. To use Mr X's example of Japan, it has similar laws to the US: non-citizens must at all times have on their person either their passport or the equivalent of a green card. Citizens, however, have no such requirement, and cannot be asked by police for ID unless they're suspected of a crime. The big difference is that in Japan, any police officer can ask a foreigner for proof of legal presence, whereas in the US, only federal immigration officers are allowed to do so. The new AZ law changes that in a round-about way - AZ is not directly using local law enforcement to enforce federal immigration law, but instead makes it a requirement in state law that aliens be "in status" according to federal immigration law, and thus state and local law enforcement can enforce the state law. In both countries, there's an interesting Catch-22 in that if the police suspect you of being an alien and ask to see your passport or green card, and you're actually a citizen, then you have no requirement to prove it, since in both countries, citizens are not required to carry ID, proof of citizenship, or identify themselves to police for no reason. The new AZ law makes this situation worse. <<< Would that be a hassle for U.S. citizens? >>> For US citizens in the US, or US citizens elsewhere? If they're elsewhere, they already have to abide by whatever law the country in which they're in has regarding carrying proof of identity and/or legal presence. If in the US, it definitely creates a problem. What if you're in AZ and a police officer suspects you of being an illegal and asks for your documentation? If you're actually a US citizen, then you may not have any such documentation on you and even if you did, have no obligation to provide it. It's only a matter of time before a US citizen in AZ that's wearing the wrong kind of shoes gets accused of being an illegal. Forgive me, but isn't such a situation classically described as a Mexican Standoff?
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "I'd like to know the year that study was made..." 2007. The study analyzed the wage impact of the 1980-2000 immigrant influx. Among all native workers, wages dropped 3.4% in the short run and 0% in the long run. Among high school dropouts, wages dropped 8.2% and 4.8% in the long run. Long run wages for high school graduates and workers with "some college" increased 1.2% and .7%, respectively. In the long run, the wages of college graduates decreased half a percent. Few studies differentiate between illegal and legal immigrants. Based on what I have learned, illegal immigrants are probably more likely to lower your wage the less education you have. These immigrants are more likely to come from impoverished nations. Legal immigrants are probably more likely to decrease the wages of college graduates due to positive selection. The most educated and well-off immigrants are probably more likely to do it the legal way, since they can afford to wait around for the process to be completed. These immigrants are likely to come from first-world nations (such as those in Europe) where taxes are high for high earners. By moving to the United States, they will be able to take advantage of lower taxes.
