Originally Posted By jonvn "I'm actually defending homeschooling." Homeschooling can actually be good. I've seen one instance where it was probably the best choice because the kid was having problems in school. He had been diagnosed at various times as ADD, ADHD, Ausbergers, manic depressive...I love how they diagnose based on flavor of the week. In any case, he was not doing well in the public school setting for whatever his needs were. I don't know how long that lasted or if the results were worthwhile or not. On the other hand, I've seen absolutely horrendous home schooling where you have an uneducated mother trying to raise 10 children and teaching their kids basically nothing. When asked about the curriculum, it's "the state only suggests a curriculum." I'm sure they're all headed to Harvard. Like everything else, there is good and bad in everything. I've read studies that show that home school kids can and do better than public school kids. But I'm not sure how those stats were gathered. Are they comparing like neighborhoods, for instance? Are they comparing a home school child from Beverly Hills to a public schooled child from a poor area? Or is it all meshed together. Personally, I would not home school a child unless it was absolutely necessary for some reason.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Now no matter what information comes to light (including the creepy revelations on birth control) people seem determined to defend this family.>> I am not defending the family. I'm defending the right for any person to have a many or as few children as they choose. I am defending Home Schooling as a viable option even though it is not a choice I would personally make. I am not personally defending the Duggars or agreeing with their political or religious points of view. On the other hand, I think it is their right as Americans to believe any dang thing they choose as long as it does not result in illegal activity.
Originally Posted By jonvn At what point does having children constitute abusive behavior towards the children that are already there? Parents aren't the only ones with rights. The kids have them as well.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip It depends on the parents. Some are unable to handle one or two without becoming abusive; some can probably handle 20 just fine. There is no set 'maximum number'. We have laws protecting children. If those laws are broken people are held accountable... whether they have one kid or many. As far as instilling a very one-sided conservative, evangelical Christian point of view; how on earth could you consider that abuse? I'm sure the conservative evangelical Christians probably feel that the environment most other people raise their children in is destructive. And with the violence, lack of morals and lack of respect for women and sexuality that is so prevalent today; who is to say that they are wrong and we are right? I certainly would not want to live according to their beliefs, but I see no reason to object if they do.
Originally Posted By jonvn "how on earth could you consider that abuse?" Quite easily. Although I didn't say that was abusive. "violence, lack of morals and lack of respect for women and sexuality that is so prevalent today; who is to say that they are wrong and we are right?" Who is to say that what they teach would alleviate any of that? "I certainly would not want to live according to their beliefs, but I see no reason to object if they do." Unfortunately, a lot of the beliefs of these sorts of people are that you do need to live according to what they think is right. That's why they have gotten involved in politics.
Originally Posted By wonderingalice Okay... I'm getting caught up again... *L* I know a family of evangelical christians that home-schooled all of their children. Fine... However, what do you guys think about the fact that the parents do not permit access to newspapers, the Internet or television? I'm not certain of the style of 'street-smarts' they're instilling in the kids on their own, but my first thought is that I'd fear for their safety if they've been given all sweetness and roses in their upbringing. And RT... *LMAO* on the "Jim Bob" thing! "G'night John Boy, g'night Mary Ellen, g'night Goober."
Originally Posted By ecdc >>On the other hand, I think it is their right as Americans to believe any dang thing they choose as long as it does not result in illegal activity.<< I often hear this response, and I think it equals what I said before. It's tolerance of intolerance. We so often hear "Well, we have free speech in our country ya know." Or, "People can believe whatever they want in the good old U.S. of A." Yes, they sure can. The flip-side is that if I find what they're saying or what they believe to be disgusting, then I'm going to say so. I tire of the response I hear of "Hey, why are you going after them? This is America, they can do what they want!" And so can I. I refuse to tolerate intolerance. If someone holds up a sign that says "God hates fags," then I'm going to say that I think they're ignorant people who let fairy tales get in the way of reality. If someone posts on their website that they "repented" after using birth control, I'm going to question their judgment and express concern that they're passing those kinds of nonsense beliefs off to their children. No one on this thread (so far as I can tell) has suggested we turn this into China and *force* these people to stop having kids. No one has said they can't believe what they want. But when someone disagrees with them, even strongly as I have, there's this bizarre, unsupported assumption out there that I somehow want to squelch their rights. I've never said anything of the sort.
Originally Posted By DlandJB I know a family of evangelical christians that home-schooled all of their children. Fine... However, what do you guys think about the fact that the parents do not permit access to newspapers, the Internet or television? I'm not certain of the style of 'street-smarts' they're instilling in the kids on their own, but my first thought is that I'd fear for their safety if they've been given all sweetness and roses in their upbringing. >>>>>>> I don't know what age group you are talking about, but when my kids were younger they were not allowed to watch anything on television except for PBS kids programs and videos we purchased. I think with the state of cable for kids today I'd be hard pressed to find almost anything I would find acceptable. One nice side benefit to this rule was they never saw kids' commercials and when the holidays came they were not brainwashed by Madison avenue into having to have the latest junk. They found the toys they wanted by looking at them in the store and trying them out. I don't believe they won't become street smart soon enough - but don't you think it is nice to let kids just be kids for as long as possible? Those years go by so fast.
Originally Posted By jonvn "what do you guys think about the fact that the parents do not permit access to newspapers, the Internet or television?" It just means they are going to grow up ignorant of the world around them, and will be angry about it. Either at their parents, or at the world because it's not like what the parents told them it was.
Originally Posted By wonderingalice <<I don't know what age group you are talking about,>> They're almost all young adults now (the youngest is about 16 - the oldest is around 22) and still live at home. I lean towards jonvn's assessment, though I'm not sure about the anger. They seem to be lovely kids... I only hope they don't fall into harm's way due to lack of knowledge of the 'real' world. Years ago, it wouldn't have been so frightening, but we're surrounded by a lot more greed and dishonesty (on one hand) and violence (on the other).
Originally Posted By jonvn I just saw a bit of anger in that kid's webpage. They want to change the world to conform to their view of it.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<No one on this thread (so far as I can tell) has suggested we turn this into China and *force* these people to stop having kids.>> Sorry, but that is incorrect. In fact it was the extreme tone of some of the early posts that got this thing off and running. Post #13: <<It's time to bring China's policy over here.>>
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan They want to change the world to conform to their view of it.<< It's almost as if they're teenagers. ; )
Originally Posted By wendebird >>I'm not sure how many LP'ers on here remember the Prairie Family from Disneyland, but that is who this family reminds me of.<< I've never heard of them. I ran a Google search to read more, but I turned up empty handed. Do you have a link by chance?
Originally Posted By LVBelle <<And RT... *LMAO* on the "Jim Bob" thing! "G'night John Boy, g'night Mary Ellen, g'night Goober.">> If we're talking about the Duggars shouldn't it be "G'night Jary Jellen, g'night Joober"?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan <a href="http://tinyurl.com/2p8rcs" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/2p8rcs</a> Freaks.
Originally Posted By wonderingalice I gotcha on the Duggar kid's anger, jonvn... I saw it too. But the family I spoke of - although a smaller clan - may be more, dare I say, odd. I'm assuming the Duggar's never had those media-related restrictions - hence the interest in politics... and anger. ;-)
