Originally Posted By disneydad109 When the Lord said "go forth and multply" He wasn't talking directy to him alone. It just a general suggestion.
Originally Posted By debtee <These are people who apparently are willing to give up some of the crap the rest of us think we need; 52" televisions, I-pods, Lexi (what the heck IS the plural of Lexus?) etc. and spend it on family instead. I just see no reason why anyone would put that choice down, even if like me it is a choice you would never make. > I have to agree with you Trippy...I've watched this family on the travel channel when they went on a roadtrip to Disneyland and they look like they have a good balance in their family life, the kids are happy and polite and they made it look easy to travel across America in two caravans with 16 kids! It's not something I would choose to do, to have that many children but it was a pleasure to watch a family that can interact with each other and have fun together, rather then watching TV all the time or playing playstation! Good luck to them!
Originally Posted By x Pirate_Princess x <<t's not something I would choose to do, to have that many children but it was a pleasure to watch a family that can interact with each other and have fun together, rather then watching TV all the time or playing playstation!>> This is how I feel too. Like I said before, if I just had a fraction of her patience, I would be such a better mother. I think this familiy, even thugh they have 17 kids, is an example for all american families. They do something called COMMUNICATION! And WORKING TOGETHER... RoatTrip said it so plainly. They value the true meaning of wealth, not the material aspect of it. And really, do they NEED to claim their house as a church? I'm sure with 17 little deductions and just the fact that they built their house from scratch is deduction enough. And who cares? Really? The fact that so many people here are being negatively judgemental just goes to show that the Duggars really are the better people. And who cares if the older ones are "raising" the younger? They use a buddy system. As a single mother, I have to do the same thing! While I'm in the shower in the morning, my older one (5) is helping my younger one (2) get dressed. It's a necessity in any mother's life to have the older children help the younger ones. And since the older ones are such good examples, why the heck shouldn't the parents use them to help? And here's the kicker...the kids WANT to help! That's how they were raised. Again, if I could effectively parent like Michelle, this household would be so much happier.
Originally Posted By x Pirate_Princess x Sorry for all the typos. I had a lot to say, but could only type so fast.
Originally Posted By Elderp I am personally ok with it as long as they have the money. I am guessing she isn't working outside of the house. I do think it is crazy to have everyone with a J name, but that is on them. There are a lot of people with J names in my family. One time my grandpa got made at a few and all he could say was "J-J-J-J-J-J." 10.5 years of being pregnant is alot, she is 40 which means menopause could be as far as 10 years away (there was a case in Russia about a woman who had a baby at 57 but I think it was invitro) and she will probably have children until then.
Originally Posted By x Pirate_Princess x They do have the money. He's working, and I think the oldest son has since joined his dad working. I think he does construction. Anyway, the have no debt. At all. And they're not on gov't assisstance. And since their kids don't go to a public school, they're not faced with the "look what I have!" or "WHY don't you have Air Jordans??" The kids are happy. And I think that is the most important thing. Again, 17 kids who will make model citizens? I'm not complaining!
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Why does this bother me so much?<< Ursula, I don't know if you mean just the tax write off bothers you, or the whole story, but I'll sign up with others and disagree with the majority that the whole story bothers me. I don't think it's right to have this many kids, yet it's always celebrated in the media with sappy stories that air in the 11:32PM segment of the news right before Letterman or Leno. A few minutes or a few articles cannot give an accurate glimpse into this family's life. Actually, I don't know that it's this particular family that bothers me, but the celebration of it. Maybe these people can actually pull it off. Maybe their kids are all ecstatic about their family situation and maybe they all get the love and attention they need. Maybe there aren't any major family problems or dysfunctions (but again, I'd argue that's impossible to tell from a handful of news stories). But most people couldn't pull it off, and they shouldn't. This shouldn't be celebrated. Children deserve more attention than parents with 17 of them can give. They also deserve to go to school and socialize with other kids; homeschooling is rarely a good idea, even with the problems of the public school system (I know there are certainly parents on LP that home school; I'm not trying to offend anyone, I just personally see it as a bad idea). It's a different world today, where it's more financially difficult to support even a family of two or three children. The culture is different, the social structure is different, etc. It's a disservice to children to bring them into a family with 15 or 16 brothers and sisters. It's a birth canal, not a clown car. I know that's a vulgar, and to some, offensive comparison. But that's how careless and silly this notion of 17 kids strikes me. We're humans, not dogs. We don't have the ability to shoot out a litter of kids and then they're all ok. Childhood emotions are extremely different. I don't care how well off this family is, these children cannot be getting the individual love and attention they need. Of course, the problem with this situation is people understandably look at the youngest kids and ooh and aah and ask, "Can you imagine though if they hadn't been born?" And of course, I'm not trying to trivialize their lives. But I think their parents have already done that.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<But most people couldn't pull it off, and they shouldn't. This shouldn't be celebrated. Children deserve more attention than parents with 17 of them can give. They also deserve to go to school and socialize with other kids; homeschooling is rarely a good idea, even with the problems of the public school system (I know there are certainly parents on LP that home school;>> People are not idiots (well, most of them aren't). If they could not pull it off they would not try. It's not like they had all 17 at once. They came one (or two) at a time, and the parents were able to judge if it was working for them or not. Don't you think if they got to number 5 and it just wasn't working, they would rethink their decision to have as many as they could? Of course they would. My guess is that these kids probably get more parental attention than most kids with working moms. I'm not putting working moms down... my wife always worked once our kids were 6 months old. But if the mother is home all day, and the children are also there because they are home schooled, they are ABSOLUTELY going to have more contact than they would with a working mom. As for home schooling; it is a decision that I would never make and one that I used to think was used only by far-right religious wing-nuts who did so just so they could keep kids from getting liberal ideas. Then my job started to involve reporting on the college success of kids coming out of the PSEO program, and specifically, comparing those coming from traditional schools to those coming from home schools. You want to know something; the home-schooled kids did better ACROSS THE BOARD!! Now it is still a decision I would not make for a bunch of different reasons. But to put a person down for making that choice shows a complete lack of knowledge of how successful those children usually are. It amazes me that people who constantly complain about how the government is taking away our freedom of choice would support taking away the most basic freedom there is… deciding how many children you want to have.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Those comments are a pretty good example of what is wrong with America today." No. It's not what is wrong with America today. Having that many kids, raising them in squalor, and home schooling them so they grow up to be ignorant and stupid, that's what is wrong. "These are people who apparently are willing to give up some of the crap the rest of us think we need" Yes, like an education for their children, sleeping on beds, and a clean place to live. Oh, and nutritious food, as opposed to chicken nuggets and fries, which are bought by the burlap sack full. Yes, I think that's just wonderful.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<"Those comments are a pretty good example of what is wrong with America today." No. It's not what is wrong with America today. Having that many kids, raising them in squalor, and home schooling them so they grow up to be ignorant and stupid, that's what is wrong. "These are people who apparently are willing to give up some of the crap the rest of us think we need" Yes, like an education for their children, sleeping on beds, and a clean place to live. Oh, and nutritious food, as opposed to chicken nuggets and fries, which are bought by the burlap sack full. Yes, I think that's just wonderful.>> You clearly know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the family that was being profiled in that article. If you are going to make such strong comments you may want to see if they have any basis in reality first. Of course what would you expect from a guy who equates God with Santa Clause?
Originally Posted By Lady Starlight I'm going to be brave and post this in here... My Mom comes from a family of 14. She has 13 other sisters and brothers..My Grandparents were imigrants from Italy who came out here and started work and a family..a huge one at that. I have talked to my mom and my aunts and uncles and they ALL agree that they had a wonderful childhood. Hard yes, but very good one none the less. My Grandmother stayed home with her kids and my Grandfather worked in coal mines. They didnt have much but they had eachother. They ALL worked hard around the house and farm and the older children helped raise the younger ones.Yes they helped one another as we ALL do in life somehow, But ultimately my Grandmother was the Matriarch and took care of everyone includeing my Grandfather ... Bring us to current times. Both my Grandparents are deceased , and some of my aunts and uncles are as well as they were up in age. My mom is 75 and has a couple older sisters and younger brothers and sisters still living. They are all upstanding citizens and have a most compassionate and loving outlook on life . They still talk about how hard it was and how poor they were yet they lacked for nothing. They were Loved fully, clothed..fed and sheltered. Maybe not as well as other familys who had luxury material possessions wich they did not have, nor needed really. They did without alot of things that were merely "want"items. They had what they needed and most of all they had eachother. No debt at all growing up either. If you didnt have the money for it, you simply didnt buy it. If you wanted it, you worked for it. Allmy aunts and uncles learned how to cook,clean,sew and care for other human beings with compassion due to them being raised the way they were. We just dont see big familys like that now a days. Thats the only difference. I honestly feel that , that family of 17 is an amazingly wonderful family. And if they can do it by unity and raise thier family with what is TRUELY needed in life, Love, food, clothing, shelter and a good work ethic,Then Good for them. K..I'm done.
Originally Posted By Lady Starlight BTW.. I'm an only child.lol. I feel like I missed out on alot of fun with having siblings though..Thank goodness for all my cousins.They kinda made up for it.
Originally Posted By jonvn "You clearly know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the family that was being profiled in that article" I know about the people I was talking about, in a post you responded to that claimed what I said was what was wrong with America. And since my comments have to do with what I've personally witnessed, then they do have a basis in reality. And this is the sort of comment you do get when you think god is a myth, and apparently the type of reading ocmprehension you get from someone who believes in fairy stories, indicating poor critical thinking skills.
Originally Posted By Lady Starlight I can only hope they you were not aiming your ^post at me, as I was JUST shareing my OWN thoughts on a big family and nothing more than that.
Originally Posted By barboy A couple having 17 biological children in the US in this day is one thing: selfish. Ok, how about two things then: irresponsible also. Now, if they would have aborted 17 then that would have been even more selfish and irresponsible.
Originally Posted By Lady Starlight sorry jonvn about my upper ^post..some of the other posts didnt come up on my pc so I didnt see what you were refering to..my appologies.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Don't you think if they got to number 5 and it just wasn't working, they would rethink their decision to have as many as they could? Of course they would.<< Not necessarily. I also think it's more complicated than that. I have no doubt that these parents love each of their children very, very, much. I'm sure they see themselves as good parents, and they probably are, if the limited information in the profile is to be believed. But their judgment is also going to be clouded by their love of their children. I guess I see it as a basically selfish decision to keep having more. "Well, we love these and they bring us so much joy and happiness, let's have another!" At some point, the ability to give the children the attention they need is going to be diminished. Their ability to feel unique and special is going to be diminished. Again, I'm not saying it's impossible for this particular family. I'm just saying I'm bugged by these sappy news stories that celebrate the parents as some kind of heroes. >>It amazes me that people who constantly complain about how the government is taking away our freedom of choice would support taking away the most basic freedom there is… deciding how many children you want to have.<< You'll never here me say that this choice should be taken away. We'll all see plenty of times when we wish we could say "Those people should need a license to breed!" There'll be terrible parents, abusive parents, lazy parents, etc., etc., but I think no government should regulate offspring.
Originally Posted By debtee <No. It's not what is wrong with America today. Having that many kids, raising them in squalor, and home schooling them so they grow up to be ignorant and stupid, that's what is wrong.> You obviously not nothing about his family yet feel the need to make ignorant comments. The Dad is wealthy in his own right, from hard work in construction and they live in a beautiful house not squalor. I have watched this family on the travel channel through several of their trips and they are one of the most well balanced families I have ever seen!
