Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<Not true. I have had quite a few disagreements with those in the Tokyo boards including WD>> Good point TDLFAN. Its funny you mentioned that because I remember trying to explain to Leemac maybe a month ago that even us super pro-TDR people don't see eye-to-eye on a lot of things just like he doesn't on things and I expressed myself so. I even remember one time you said something to me not being a true TDR fan BECAUSE I criticized it too much for your taste . I am only rehashing this because yeah, I'm VERY quick to point out the flaws that TDR has just like any other place and has been called on it by you. It's not a TDR-everything-good other-parks-everything-bad type of arguments. Things I don't like, I REEAAALY don't like. The difference is, in my book, TDR seems to be doing things right (or things *I* like at least) 90% of the time, so its hard pressed to complain about a lot of things while some of the other parks (mainly the newer ones) seems to get it right about 50/50 and therefore easier to make complaints about. I certainly don't think TDR is perfect and obviously has said so in the past, but honestly, if THAT place doesn't do it for me, then in my book, no Disney resort can ;D.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN I get you WD...but let's face it: many people are just content with substance (such as the beautiful surroundings at HKDL) and that's not necesarily a bad thing. Me? I like the substance to go hand in hand in hand with quantity and a dash of spick and span.. because, both of them compliment each other and add real value to any Disney vacation, which in terms..leaves me with a very full filling satisfaction at the end. Reason why TDR tops.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Oh yeah, I agree TDLFAN. I can still remember when I visited DL back in 2002/2003 and was surprised how DIRTY and rundown the place looked?? Funny thing is before, I wouldn't have noticed before. It was only because I was spending more and more time at TDL and away from the L.A. park that when I got to see it again after nearly 2 years, I saw a HUGE difference between both parks cleaniless and maitenance. It even surprised ME and I'm not a clean freak like you . Needless to say though that seeing the O.G. park in July, things have changed dramatically since the 2003 visit. I was even back in TDL less than a week after seeing the Anaheim park again after another huge absence and noticed how much on par they are now with each other concerning cleanliness and maintenance. So, DL is still the greatest MK park ever built in my book . As 'substance' we ALL know what HKDL lacks in this department (hint: ATTRACTIONS!!!!!), and yeah, I'm defintly a ride guy, 10 times more than I am a show guy that's for sure, so for someone like me, that seriously lacks in my book. Its the COMPLETE package that's important. DL and TDL got that right. DLP seems to be 50/50 and I guess MK in Florida seems to be less so reading the reports by you and others these days (although when I went back in 2003, I thought it was in better shape than DL ). So yeah, everything matters, I agree and its why I'm so hard on this park now because in *my* book, they missed the biggest component of why the majority of people go to them in the first place.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>DL is still the greatest MK park ever built in my book<< Absolutely! Reason why there is hope for HKDL since they share so much in feel and look. >>I can still remember when I visited DL back in 2002/2003 and was surprised how DIRTY and rundown the place looked?? Funny thing is before, I wouldn't have noticed before. It was only because I was spending more and more time at TDL and away from the L.A. park that when I got to see it again after nearly 2 years, I saw a HUGE difference between both parks cleaniless and maitenance. It even surprised ME<< That is my cross to bear and the reason why many LPers take my comments so personally and call me arrogant. Since I am at TDR as much as I am at WDW, the disparities across the board are really upsetting to me. Even G-Fan (if you can believe it) is more critical of WDW's lack of standards in some areas... You think I am an arse?? Try G-Fan's point of view on this very same matter.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Dude, I dont't think I ever harped on the cleanliness issue like you lol. But yes, I have noticed more and more now (mainly because of sites like this probably). Of course, we can easily argue a bit part of TDR super cleanliness is simply a reflection of how super clean the entire country really is. I lived in a few big cities in my time and Tokyo hands down is THE cleanest city with a population of over 5 million I ever seen. Its amazing when I think about how clean the place is when I lived there. Compared to REALLY dirty Korea here, it's like apples and oranges . As for as the parks, I can't compare to WDW because I haven't been there since 2003 and probably won't be back soon (I gotta pay for grad school some how!! ), but the issue just seems to be lowered standards across the entire board and that's what is sad about it. The entire place just seems to be affected by apathy whereas places like TDL is a reflection of the cultural standards and maintain the status quo as such. Apparently DL has seemed to have found its rebirth, but I guess you become more critical of your your apparence and quickly do something about it when you hit middle age ;D. A little 'off topic', but who are we kiddding, we been off topic for about 70 posts already lol, but I was curious what did you think of the shows there? As you know, I'm not a show guy, haven't even looked at any of the videos (plus like to be a little surprised for myself if I catch the parade and such in a few months ), but did you like them? Were they up to your standards?
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>The entire place just seems to be affected by apathy whereas places like TDL is a reflection of the cultural standards and maintain the status quo as such.<< I totally agree on this, reason why I love visiting Japan. >>you become more critical of your your apparence and quickly do something about it when you hit middle age<< Which reminds me to get off my arse and do my workout. >>but did you like them? Were they up to your standards?<< You mean..the HKDL shows and parade? Well I thought the shows were the best part of the HKDL experience. Lion King improves the original version at DAK, and is a must see. "Golden Mickeys" was the best show aboard the Wonder when I went on my cruise and this version at HKDL delivers the best moments from that show in a tighter format. Great show to see and I recommend it. This is the show to should replace "OMD2" at TDL. The Parade...well... can't go wrong with the fact that 65% of it was TDL's 100 yrs of Magic. The few new floats are pretty enought and the parade cast gave it all concidering how humid and hot the day was. I found the new parade music peppy and upbeat but disliked that it became a bit repetitive after a while... Still, this parade is better than the DLP and MK parades at this time. Overall, I was very satisfied with the entertainment, and that includes the walkaround stuff I saw..
Originally Posted By WorldDisney TDLFAN cool thanks!! Gives me something a little more to look forward to .
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Defender of all that is true and right in the Disney empire.... >>> ... and slayer of any claim that the magic in the manner that Walt used to create DL is still applicable today in making business decisions This is probably the basis on where you and I have divergent views on things. I hope I'm not taking what you said about Disney being just a business on another thread out of context (please correct me if I misunderstood). I think a difference of opinion on this point explains a great many things about how people can have consistently different opinions on things - it's a result of coming at the overall situation from a different point of view.
Originally Posted By leemac ^^ Not at all. Disney is just a business. That is linked to creativity but they aren't there for the good of the public-at-large and as a public service. I'm not a Walt man and never will be. I'll never apologise for that. He has been dead for decades and I honestly don't believe he could have led the company in the directions they have gone. I don't see him as a creative individual at all and his (allegedly) bully-boy tactics and ego I find hard to stomach. Totally divergent to everyone else's perspective but Roy O. will always be held in higher asteem by me.
Originally Posted By leemac Walt existed to be in business. Plain and simple. He milked the company for all it was worth once DL opened. If not he would have reinvested heavily. He didn't. He took a fat salary and dividend checks. He went public as soon as possible. There are plenty of other family businesses that have avoided this and thrived. I respect his drive and ambition (considering how little actual creative talent he had) to succeed.
Originally Posted By leemac I wonder how long it will be before I get slammed for that particular POV........
Originally Posted By TDLFAN The only thing I have to say Lee is that Walt may or may not have been much of a businessman, who cares... as stories tell Roy did all the financing for Walt's crazy dreams, but to say that Walt was not a creative force in his company is just as ludicrous as me advocating extra parking fee for handicapped guests at WDW (granted half of them walk out of their vehicles just fine). But since there is no other point of view on these boards but yours, and I not even going to waste my time on this. Remember, Eisner didn't bring any creativity to WDC either. Hotels and more hotels and new DL parks based on Walt's and other tired and old ideas already done by other companies (Busch/Universal anyone?), Nightclubs... Yes...Eisner's track record in the Creativity dept is at the very least abominal.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "I wonder how long it will be before I get slammed for that particular POV........" SLAM! SLAM ... and another SLAM with a HAMMER for good measure. I obviously disagree vehemently with you, and can't fathom how someone who loves Disney and makes money off Disney and spends so much of his life involved with Disney could feel that way. BUT it is your opinion. And you have every right to be wrong! That said, I also greatly admire Roy O. Disney and do feel that he has never gotten his true due for what he contributed (much like Frank Wells in the Michael Eisner era), but look at like this, it's doubtful Roy would have been anything other than a banker (maybe a bigtime one, but one nonetheless) if not for his brother's 'limited' creativity. Roy was allowed to be a genius in his own right in large part because of his brother's genuius. BTW, are we going to see a story about Walt not being all that in a future issue of Tales? Didn't think so.
Originally Posted By kennect Lee, There isn't one thing you said in post 113/114 that makes any sense whatsoever...In the past I have enjoyed your reports and posts...But sorry you just lost me on this one...You are so nuts about this company but say the guy who got it started doesn't strike you as having been creative...Interesting idea....Glad to hear that is the way you feel...I doubt many would agree though...But then again you already know that and it seems to me the only reason you would post such...For a while I thought you were clever and your efforts were of value...Forget that....
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I think it's perfectly reasonable that Lee could enjoy the entertainment offerings of the WDC and not hold Walt Disney as an demigod. As he said, Walt has been dead for nearly 40 years, and a lot of that entertainment has come and gone well after he was gone. Even when Walt was alive, he was merely the captain, and not the creator. Now, _I_ wouldn't go so far as saying Walt had no talent, but it was the people under him that created the magic... he just put his name on it. Put another way, he was the guy with the vision, and the people who worked for him made his vision a reality.
