Originally Posted By kennect I think it takes creative people to have vision even if others produce the product...Lee, I feel, is really speaking out of line here with his opinion of Walt...Without a Walt Disney, Lee would have no magazine to publish.....It really is sort of an insult to the people buying his publication for him to say the originator of the company means nothing to him...And he can put any kind of spin on that he likes but I won't be buying it....Lee, can think anything he likes, I just feel his comments aren't really that wise when it comes to business...But then again maybe he doesn't care....
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<It really is sort of an insult to the people buying his publication for him to say the originator of the company means nothing to him>> I think Lee appreciates Walt on some level ("I respect his drive and ambition... to succeed.") This discussion reminds me of how well the WDC has brainwashed fans to idolize Walt Disney so much. Not saying I don't appreciate what Walt did; I grew up in the 60's, and the Wonderful World of Disney, the feature animation and live action movies, and Disneyland were all HUGE parts of my childhood. But I think to a large degree I myself have have fallen for all the stories and legends that abound about the man... and face it, 99% of us here only know him from what we have read, or heard from people who worked with him. Given that where we read and hear about him is fan related, is it any wonder it's mostly positive spin, as opposed to anything that may portray him in a less-than-flattering way.
Originally Posted By leemac I knew precisely the type of comments I would get by posting my thoughts. Sadly I was right on the money. However it did make me reach a decision that I should have taken ages ago. I had always hoped that people would be able to see the difference between my personal musings and the beliefs of our organisation as a whole. They aren't the same and never will be. My core beliefs about Disney are precisely that: Mine. I had always hoped that LP-ers would be able to tell the difference on the boards. However I continuously have to remind them and that isn't helpful. I don't speak for LP nor Tales. We are a collective organisation that operates on a democratic basis. I am the publisher and not the creative or editorial controller of the magazine. That said we are not a historical publication. Our plan was to cover the present and future of the company with the occasional nod to the past. Too much of the Disney history through to the 70s has been rehashed and retold a million times. However our recent articles on subjects like Expedition:Everest and Hong Kong Disneyland are the most comprehensive available to date. To such an extent that Disney themselves use it as a reference guide. Anyhow I have decided that it is just too much effort to continually beat back the narrow-minded viewpoints of many on LP. It is hard work and I no longer derive any real pleasure from being on the boards. So this is my last post on the LP message boards. Lee
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Wow, that didn't take long . Lee, I shouldn't have to say this, but no one wants you gone dude. You contribute A LOT here and even though 90% of people here probably don't agree a lot of what you say, the reality is that for a discussion board, having a different POV on things is what keeps things interested and develops discussion. As Mulder once said to Scully once, "You keep me honest." I think you keep US honest as well . So, it would be a shame for you to leave, but if that's what you decide to do, understandable. Despite ALL our disagreements, I can honestly say you're a good guy and you'll be missed by me, seriously.
Originally Posted By Mr X Well, gee, it just got a WHOLE lot easier to hype Tokyo DisneySea over on the Tokyo boards. No Lee, don't go! Or something like that.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "Even when Walt was alive, he was merely the captain, and not the creator. Now, _I_ wouldn't go so far as saying Walt had no talent, but it was the people under him that created the magic... he just put his name on it. Put another way, he was the guy with the vision, and the people who worked for him made his vision a reality." You know, I think it's foolish to dismiss Walt as just putting his name on stuff. Ok, in later years he wasn't the one animating or designing theme parks, but he was the one responsible for FINDING the right people and driving them to success. In all of the interviews and books I've read from people that work with Walt, they all said that he pushed them to do things beyond anything they thought they could do. Walt WAS a visionary, in the way he gathered his talent, and getting them to realize what was going on in his head. This is not to say he was a super-human. Nobody can lay claim to that, and Walt obviously had some major faults. With that said, I also have to strongly disagree with Lee and stress that although Walt has been dead for decades, the things he left behind are still making TONS of money for Disney. Where would the company be without Show White or Cinderella? They milk those gals like there's no tomorrow, yet those films are also decades old and past their prime. The Walt Disney Company would be nothing today if if weren't for the strong foundation that Walt built. Yeah, the company has done some great stuff but, again, without that foundation it would not exist.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>Anyhow I have decided that it is just too much effort to continually beat back the narrow-minded viewpoints of many on LP. It is hard work and I no longer derive any real pleasure from being on the boards.<< Lee, everyone here respects your point of view and insight into the company's business, but if that is the way you feel, you should be reminded you did it to yourself for coming across as a british fop and pompous attitude about being the "know it all" of anything Disney, constantly looking down and shooting down everyone's opinions right and left instead of doing so (correcting everyone's views as you put it) with some level of finesse. I can even accept your opinions about Walt himself even if I don't agree with you. Anyways..if that was indeed your last post on LP, which I don't believe it is especially if Tales sales start slipping....then good luck with your endeavors... and if you see me around at the parks, do say hello because I will do just that if I spot you next time.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Yeah TDLFAN, I HIGHLY doubt that is Lee's last post . How many of US have said the exact same thing and ended back here? Although I never said it on the boards, I told myself the same thing and was back 3 days later (of course, that's because I had some psycho on my back here everyday who ended up getting the booot, but that's a different thread topic ). Anyway, I'm pretty sure Leemac will be back, I have little doubt that he will be back, just needs to calm down I guess and take some time off from here. I never personally felt he 'looked down' on my opinions and I certainly never on his (just thought they were waaaay too bizarre ), but for the most part, he seem to respect people and what they had to say, at least HERE and the TDR section, although things did get a little heated there from time-to-time. But, it goes with the nature of things here. Anyway TDLFAN, I guess you are now our new provider for all info HKDL on a continous basis. (Gives slight bow) ALL HAIL TDLFAN, NEW PROVIDER OF HKDL INFORMATION! BLESS OUR NEW LEADER ;D
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I think it's foolish to dismiss Walt as just putting his name on stuff.>> I thought I communicated that...that he was the visionary, who used his people to make his visions come to reality.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>TDLFAN, I guess you are now our new provider for all info HKDL on a continous basis.<< Doubtful. I hardly go to HKDL more than a few times a year. Besides...I do not have the "insight" knowledge Leemac seemed to have, so thanks but no thanks. MY opinions are strictly from a fan's point of view out at the park. I don't care to get involved in company propaganda or business related matters. If Leemac really is gone, then I nominate HongKongDisneyland to be the provider of all things HKDLR. As long as he does it on one single post instead of several little ones.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>I hardly go to HKDL more than a few times a year.<< Meant to say go to Hong Kong (The City) more than a few times a year... Dang missing edit feature!!!
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "<<I think it's foolish to dismiss Walt as just putting his name on stuff.>> I thought I communicated that...that he was the visionary, who used his people to make his visions come to reality." You did, I was just adding my two cents.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I wonder how long it will be before I get slammed for that particular POV........ >>> I don't think there's any need to slam you for it. I'm glad that you've shared this with us - things people say that you may not agree with always make a bit more sense when you know what's behind them.
Originally Posted By SuperDry ^^^ Wow - I wrote #134 before I got to leemac's "I'm gone" message. These parts just won't be the same without you. Please come back. I think you can see that although some here may attack your posts from time to time, many of us try hard to "agree to disagree" and enjoy a different POV.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney I admit I'll be shocked if Lee doesn't return. I also do enjoy debating with him and others with different POVs. I too wish he'd stick around. Although, yes, I did find him to have a bit of an attitude when people disagreed with him, but I often see things get lost in the translation between the cyber-world and the real world. But I'm sorry, I just can't get over the whole "Walt is so overrated" deal ... just can't. Especially when it comes from someone who's making money off Walt's creative legacy and company. Yes, Lee can feel anyway he wants (although tell me that 99% of all Disney fans wouldn't disagree with Lee's opinion), but you can't seperate his 'personal' opinions with that of LP.com. You just can't. All of our personal opinions color the way we view, act and react to the world. To say that Lee's feelings about Disney don't reflect his 'work' for this DISNEY site or Tales -- a fanzine about DISNEY -- is really ludicrous and I don't see how any rational person can think about it and not see that.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I thought he explained it pretty well. He is interested in the Disney of now, and not the Disney of yesterday. His work is about the current offerings of the WDC, not the history or heritage of Walt Disney the man.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Well then.. to hell with "It was all started by a Mouse" and "Traditions" classes, and the fact that all of the old timer classics are the stuff that the Disney 'of today' is milking all the way to the bank in the form of lame sequels and dvd platinum releases... Bring on Chicken Little. <---ill to his stomach.
Originally Posted By kennect TDL, It is very plain and simple...Some folks know the past and remember fondly...Others apparently don't....And talk of brainwashing isn't part of this equation....
Originally Posted By TDLFAN No it isn't. But I demand *q*u*a*l*i*t*y* in everything Disney does. Dang it!! <---pounds fist on table as quality demands are made in loud tone of voice!
