Originally Posted By kennect So that was that rumbling I just heard...Come on, quiet down it is time for sleep here! OH, btw, I got my postcard today from Mr. Iger....Did you get yours?
Originally Posted By TDLFAN No. We are not in speaking term anymore, since he beat me to CEO position.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney He must like me better than the two of you because I got my card at least 4-5 days ago! And to continue this debate, I don't think there is anything wrong with focusing on the present. I think Lee and this site have done a SUPER job on showcasing things like HKDL. But they don't exist in a vacuum (is that spelled right?) ... There wouldn't be a HKDL if there hadn't have been a DL and a MK first. Chicken Little wouldn't exist if Sleeping Beauty and Bambi and Jungle Book hadn't of been created. There wouldn't be a Disney Channel if there hadn't of been a Wonderful World of Disney. I just don't see how you can appreciate what went into creating an Expedition Everest, which I saw this morning and looks INCREDIBLE if you don't appreciate what went into creating the Matterhorn. And to say Walt Disney wasn't a creative genius and visionary is just nuts to me. None of us would be here right now if that hadn't been the case. I don't see how this point is even remotely debatable.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: It often seems that there are actually TWO different fan bases going on within the Laughing Place Pond--if not MORE; those who love and support Walt Disney and those who love and support Current management. Since both of those factions have very different philosophies about how best to manage the company we all love, it's only natural that there will be disagreements that take all the fun out of being Disney fans. ORWEN: I really think it might be better if there were two or three different clubs, the--one to honor Walt Disney and the other one to honor Michael Eisner or Robert Iger or even Paul Pressler--if he's what floats your boat. ORGOCH: Them last 3 all went 'n SUNK mine!
Originally Posted By kennect Luv, Sorry, I just sort of glossed over your post with my above comment...You are so right mentioning what you did....I can't believe that anyone can't concieve the idea that we are dealing with one of the most creative persons in history....But his genius was known long before a theme park...
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<It often seems that there are actually TWO different fan bases going on within the Laughing Place Pond--if not MORE; those who love and support Walt Disney...>> I have bad news for you: Walt disney is dead. I am just pushing your buttons. I am sure you think I am one of the anti-Disney faction, and pro-whatever. But I both honor the old, and appreciate the new. Remember, just as there could be no company if it weren't for the founder, there could have been no WDC if it weren't for those that picked up where Walt left off.
Originally Posted By kennect OK Trek, What does that mean? Obviously the guy is dead...No one is arguing that point...
Originally Posted By kennect I am out of here after this...Companies for the most part have histories...You know, how they began, who started them...Most companies though aren't involved in a venue that incorporates such creative concepts as such the Disney Studios did when it was concieved....The entire life of the Disney company has centered around creative content...Sorry that some can't seem to consider that Walt got it going and that it still means something...Damn, no Mickey Mouse...What a thought that would be...Lee, got this bandwagon going with his opinion and others feel as he does...Fine...If some people think that current Disney management is what makes the Disney company special great...More power to them...I personally feel that Walt truly inspired a unique concept that is being kept alive today on very wobbly legs due to the thinking of some folks around here...Of course now it is huge business LIKE everything else going on in the world...Sorry, I tend to think of Snow White, Dumbo, Fantasia and so many other films everytime I walk into a Disney park...I guess being fifty just leaves me out of the loop when it comes to what a modern day Disney park should represent....I am no Disney apologist, all I simply have to know is I remember where all of this came from...And there is nothing better than your original source for inspiration...Some of you are missing out on the idea that the Disney name is still around after all of these years...That in itself means alot....
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Obviously the guy is dead...No one is arguing that point... >>> ... at least until they find a cure for his disease and unfreeze his head.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss ^^ his head has been buried frozen underneath Cinderella Castle for 50 years!!!
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Cinderella Castle? 50 years? You must be one of those who believe WDW has actually been there for 50 years!! The power of advertisement at work. Tisk, tisk.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORWEN: Us cauldron girls have said it before and we'll say it again. Disney isn't Disney any more. We're not exactly sure when Disney stopped being Disney because it was a gradual process. We sadly watched it happen right before our eyes but weren't allowed to use our own magic to interfere--because there are certain restrictions on us. ORDDU: I think Paul Pressler's ascent to the Theme Park side of the company was certainly a significant mark for the beginning of Disney's Downfall--along with the death of Frank Wells. ORWEN: At least there's still plenty of magic to go around in terms of all the wonderful Disney movies from the past. We'll always have Snow White, Pinocchio, Lady & the Tramp, Sleeping Beauty, Peter Pan and so on. It's a tragedy how current management is going to give us a perverted version of Rapunzel--which COULD have been a return to past glories if only it was being handled properly. ORGOCH: Heck! The way things is goin', even a flick like BLACK CAULDRON's gonna start lookin' good!
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney ^^^Great post, gals. I think Disney stopped being DISNEY when it became more important to market 'the magic' than to create new magic (if that makes any sense). This started soon after Euro Disney when Eisner got gunshy, but picked up steam bigtime after Frank Wells died tragically and Disney swallowed ABC. I always point to 1996 and the cheap. tawdry celebration of WDW's 25th (vs. DL's 25th) when I knew Disney as we knew it had jumped the shark. Yes, some amazing things like DAK, TDS, new resorts, some attractions came after '96, but most were in the pipeline before (or in TDS's case paid for by someone else). Since then, it's just been a living off past glories, many of which, date back to good old Walt's time and concepts.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "And to say Walt Disney wasn't a creative genius and visionary is just nuts to me. None of us would be here right now if that hadn't been the case." I sort of agree, however how does us being here qualify Walt Disney as a genius? Personally I think that his strengths were in his ability to tell a stories that connected with his audience on an emotional level. Whether he was a genius or not is questionable.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "I sort of agree, however how does us being here qualify Walt Disney as a genius? Personally I think that his strengths were in his ability to tell a stories that connected with his audience on an emotional level. Whether he was a genius or not is questionable." Well Hans, I just look at all the innovations that came from his mind. From the first talking cartoon to the first animated feature to the first theme park to Audio Animatronics etc ... he was clearly a visionary that always thought ahead, always looked for new technologies while never losing sight of the importance of telling a good story, never looked/talked down to his audience, always pushed his staff to do their best (with quality being the primary goal, not like today's MBAs who dictate story decisions to save $$$) etc ... Ultimately look at the effects his company, his creative legacy have had on the world ... I think based upon all the above, he was definitely a genius. Certainly, that's just an opinion. Some folks may think the Imagineers who design kiddle play-and-pee fountains are geniuses or actors or baseball players ... so it's opinion. But I look at the fact there are few places on this planet that haven't been touched in some way by Disney's creations.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt ...he was clearly a visionary that always thought ahead..." Other than being an exceptional storyteller and communicator Walt Disney didn't seem to possess any particular intellectual or creative ability. In fact he admitted himself that when it came to creating cartoons he wasn't a very good artist. On the other hand, as a 20th century purveyor of pop entertainment he was certainly very influential and by the time he died he was clearly at the top of his game. Not surprisingly toward the end of his career he began to express interest in projects with more lofty intentions(EPCOT) and from time to time he did produce things than had an intellectual slant to them. However, because much of the inspiration for his projects came from external sources (such as his staff) and the vast majority of his creations were produced by these individuals, I believe that labelling him a true certified genius is a bit of a stretch. Just my opinion.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Other than being an exceptional storyteller and communicator Walt Disney didn't seem to possess any particular intellectual or creative ability. >>> I can't help but point to the obvious response to what you say: the creation of Disneyland. Many of the business experts at the time told him it was a bad idea, but he perservered and look what we have. He turned out to be right even though none of the conventional business models of the time would have predicted it. It's this sort of thinking that is needed today. And not that I'm not just saying "spend spend spend" - rather, I think there's a business model out there for Disney that may not conform to conventional MBA models that nonetheless would be very profitable to WDC.
