Originally Posted By ecdc >>The Bible is exclusively testiments from people who have actually lived and who actually encountered real events. The Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are all news stories from those real people. These people have sworn to their lives of the truths that they conveyed.<< The Bible's a collection of political statements and documents written by people with specific agendas. It's filled with inaccuracies and myths meant to tell stories. Much of it is simply implausible (Noah's ark) or historically untenable (the Exodus).
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn <Still waiting on that evidence, mrkthompsn> You will see the evidence when you open your eyes, open your mind and open your heart.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Noah's Ark is not implausible.<< Actually it is. A friend of mine who's a biology professor at a religious university wrote an article on it. There are animals living that we can't replicate their habitat *today*, let alone millennia ago. How exactly did Noah round up all 100,000 species of insect? Or a polar bear with a black bear, a boa constrictor, and a kangaroo? And if you invoke the miracles of god for these things, then why build the ark at all? God could have done any other number of things.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>You will see the evidence when you open your eyes, open your mind and open your heart.<< More meaningless one-liners that impress the faithful and get them to nod along, but that actually contributes nothing nor proves anything.
Originally Posted By X-san ***If the Bible is not reliable, then neither is the NYC, the Washington Post, the AP, USA Today, CNN or Fox News.*** Actually, I agree. These days, none of those are reliable. So you're right Mrk, "news" from nowadays can be just as much false propaganda and made up stories as it was 2,000 years ago!
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn <So you're right Mrk, "news" from nowadays can be just as much false propaganda and made up stories as it was 2,000 years ago!> Thanks for a good kill on my point (bow to the smart one) As far as Noah's great flood goes, consider this scenario: What would physically happen in the Middle East region - even today - if a giant comet struck the Pacific Ocean on the opposite side of the planet? Would might happen on day one? What would happen throughout the next forty days?
Originally Posted By X-san ***Thanks for a good kill on my point (bow to the smart one)*** No, actually I said they're wrong and so are you. As for your "what if a comet hit", what's your point? It doesn't explain the logistics of the boat, the animals, or the simple fact that anything of that magnitude would pretty much shatter anything made of wood anyway. But the bible just said "it rained" right? Is THAT what would happen if a comet hit?
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn "But the bible just said "it rained" right? Is THAT what would happen if a comet hit?" It said the floodwaters come on the earth. All the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights. Yes, faith in God is necessary to believe in the miracle of the calling of animals. But I believe a comet was used to flood the earth. It would seem reasonable that the far side of the earth opposite an ocean would mostly experience dramatic rain from a comet hitting and "bursting forth" the deep water.
Originally Posted By X-san ***But I believe a comet was used to flood the earth.*** Why do you believe that? This is God we're talking about right? He could've just said "abracadabra". Why would he bother diverting some comet?
Originally Posted By mele My favorite theory about the ark is that the animals were all in some sort of magical coma where they didn't need to eat or drink or eliminate wastes, including the miniature dinosaurs.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 "It said the floodwaters come on the earth. All the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights." You do realize that most Christian churches teach that this story, and the rest of Genesis, were just stories, right? They were just a way for the people of the time to explain how the earth was made. Having a belief in God doesn't mean you have to believe in ancient myths...
Originally Posted By u k fan I read the other day that it's been discovered that the word "forty" was translated incorrectly and simply means many, hence the use of 40 days more than once. I think whether you believe what the Bible says or not it's at best narrow-minded to accept every word as correct!!!
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn <Why do you believe that? This is God we're talking about right? He could've just said "abracadabra". Why would he bother diverting some comet?> God often uses the tool and structure of His own creation to do his will. <You do realize that most Christian churches teach that this story, and the rest of Genesis, were just stories, right? They were just a way for the people of the time to explain how the earth was made. Having a belief in God doesn't mean you have to believe in ancient myths...> All churches that I have been to emphasize that these events were real and actual history. <I read the other day that it's been discovered that the word "forty" was translated incorrectly and simply means many, hence the use of 40 days more than once.> I agree with that. Much of this portion of the Bible was written in ancient Hebrew. There are many words in Hebrew that have no equivalent English word - so they picked words most similar to demonstrate the effect. One of the words of contention was related to the word "day" as in "seven days to create the earth". The ancient Hebrew word in that case didn't have a strong and clear English translation. Some scholars believe that the word "moment" would have been more appropriate.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn <My favorite theory about the ark is that the animals were all in some sort of magical coma where they didn't need to eat or drink or eliminate wastes, including the miniature dinosaurs.> One of my favorite "Far Side" cartoons is when the lions ate one of the unicorns.
Originally Posted By u k fan I think my mother has a book that tells how scientifically Noah's Ark is possible and talks about the archeological evidence of it. I've never read it, but now I wish I had!!!
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<All churches that I have been to emphasize that these events were real and actual history.>> Oh, I don't doubt that...but that doesn't mean that they all do.
Originally Posted By X-san ***<Why do you believe that? This is God we're talking about right? He could've just said "abracadabra". Why would he bother diverting some comet?> God often uses the tool and structure of His own creation to do his will.*** Maybe. But why do you assume such things. Perhaps he did things completely differently. Aren't you offending your own God by presuming to guess what he did, exactly? He could've accomplished such a feat in any countless number of ways (using his own tools and structures, as you put it). So why do you assume that just because a comet seems logical to YOU, a lowly human, that means it's the way God did it? You are very presumptuous, to assume such things. He could've just as easily used his creations, the clouds, or his creations, the earthquakes (to move the seas up on to the land), or his creations gravity (by moving the moon slightly closer to the planet), or about 20,000 options I haven't even considered. (not to mention the abracadabra option, which seems the simplest if you ask me) But YOU presume to postulate exactly how HE did it. How arrogant of you.
Originally Posted By X-san ***I think my mother has a book that tells how scientifically Noah's Ark is possible*** The whole story in its' entirety, short of a miracle, is impossible. Particularly rounding up all the species on the planet to put onto a single boat. Just..really..impossible. If you want to equate it to a miracle, that's fine, but please don't try and justify it "scientifically" because that's just ridiculous. As far as Mrk trying to explain the flood part, that's funny because I WOULD certainly agree that there are any number of natural or supernatural ways for a huge flood to occur (anyone see the vids on YouTube of the Tsunamis? Scary stuff! Noah level, for SURE!). So, nobody (or at least not me) is trying to say that such a catastrophe would be impossible. Certainly not. In the history of the planet, in fact it's quite probable. It's all the parts about humanity being wiped out, and this one guy building a big boat, and finding all the animals who walked 2 by 2 into the boat, and the rode on the waters for a while, and then restarted humanity. THAT'S the dumb part.
