Originally Posted By pecos bill Although I have no belief, I have always liked Christmas, and feel I have as much a right to celebrate the season as anyone. I am all about the joy to the world, and goodwill to all men stuff, and that is what the season is, or should be about. In social situations, I go with the flow. I dont like to rock the boat, and try not to take my ideals too seriously. However, I will bow to no idol, Christian or otherwise.
Originally Posted By quincytoo >>>>I gotta say, I don't think it was your daughter being silly here. Were you concerned that the printing on the paper would burn holes in the present?<<<< As her MOTHER, I just don't want that image in my house. If I let the Jesus riff raff in the house then Buddha and Muhammad, Jehovah and all other heads of all other religions would have to have equal billing and at 2800 SQ feet the house isn't large enough >;D
Originally Posted By ecdc >>As her MOTHER, I just don't want that image in my house.<< My apologies. I thought about phrasing it gender-neutral, but got lazy.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Thid is a really interesting thread. I am not fully qualified as I too am agnostic, but not a christian and I do become more and more cynical about christianity. However, I, like many others, celebrae christmas as a cultural tradition (love to decorate, watch the specials, and love perpetuating the existance of santa clause. Just like many celebrte Halloween without being believers in the Semean. I also celebrate Hannukah, Chinese New Year and Diwali with the kids. I actually quite enjoy going to church sometimes, especially here in Europe where they are 1000 years old, beautiful pieces of architecture, and have been a social historical focal point. I love the huge pipe organs, the choirs, the bells, the stained glass. But I also enjoy going to the synagogues, mosques, temples and shrines. I think all faiths have good and common messages and encourage the kids to explore all faiths. And despite some of my posts, I try to be repctful of others' faiths as long as they respect me too. I will say god bless you to a religious person, if it makes them feel better. But I do refuse to
Originally Posted By Mr X ^---OMG, DavewasBaloo was captured mid-sentence by the evangelical tolerance of all religions prevention squad!! I hope he's okay...those reeducation Bible camps can be hell on Earth.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 Yeah, I have no problem celebrating the secular Christmas at all. In fact, my house looks like a department store window. I love decorating, listening to Christmas music, celebrating with family & friends. I just choose to edit out the religious imagery or stories. Considering many of the current holiday traditions are based on pagan ones, I have no problem using them. Also, since December 25th is NOT actually Jesus' birthday, I don't feel like I'm doing anything to upset any Christians.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 Actually, to say something about the supposed date of Jesus' birthday. I remember growing up evangelical, and being told at one point that his birthday would have actually been sometime in May, I was surprised. It bothered me that we chose December 25th, and everybody just acted as if it didn't matter. I now know why that date was chosen, but I just find it kind of annoying that Christians get so upset when Jesus is not the focus of some holiday celebrations. The whole "keep the Christ in Christmas" thing seems very silly to me, considering Jesus was basically lumped into a bunch of pagan traditions. Really, to be reverential to him, he should be celebrated around his actual birthday to keep it separated. But no, we get ignorant people up in arms about saying "happy holidays". Sorry for the rant, but this issue has been bothering me more in the last few years.
Originally Posted By quincytoo >>>>My apologies. I thought about phrasing it gender-neutral, but got lazy.<<< No worries it is all good I would love to see the ancient churchs, temples, synagogues, mosques and shrines we have a beautiful one here that is about 100 years old and it is beautiful as is the one in Puerto Vallarta where they have taken Christianity (scenes of Mary, the cross and Jesus and nestled them next to pictures and props of their ancient religions. I like gurgitory's post, it sums it all up for me.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 I've never really understood why some people get so bent out of shape about people celebrating Christmas without making Jesus the focus. Christmas has basically morphed into a holiday celebrating "peace on earth" and "goodwill towards man", and frankly, those concepts are worth celebrating even without any mention of the baby Jesus. Besides, I'm sure Jesus himself would be quite pleased to know that a day chosen to celebrate his birth has become a day that brings all people, no matter what faith, together to celebrate peace and goodwill.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Oh I don't know. Jesus on wrapping paper? That seems pretty hyper-religious to me, especially for someone who isn't a Christian.>> Well, Christmas is the celebration of Jesus's alleged birth. Now if someone game me a Christmas present wrapped in "Muhammad" gift wrap that might raise one of my eye brows.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Christmas has basically morphed into a holiday celebrating "peace on earth" and "goodwill towards man", and frankly, those concepts are worth celebrating even without any mention of the baby Jesus.>> From where I'm sitting its morphed into what Charlie Brown's sister Sally said: Its about getting while the getting is good. Goodwill towards men? Pft!! Maybe on TV specials on the Hallmark Channel.
Originally Posted By danyoung >I've never really understood why some people get so bent out of shape about people celebrating Christmas without making Jesus the focus.< Within the Christian community that I grew up in, Christmas is totally about Jesus - the rest of the stuff is just added on by a commercial empire who wants people to shop more, spend more, and consume more, all so they can make more money. To take Jesus out of that is to surrender to the commercial aspects of the holiday. I'm not saying I agree with this, but it is a very real concern for the Christian faith.
Originally Posted By mawnck Let's put Christ back in Christmas Right back where he belongs Let's put Christ back in Christmas And back in your favorite Christmas songs Frosty the Snowman Was Jesus Christ's best friend. He stood there melting by the cross until the very end. You better not shout You better not cry Better not pout I'm telling you why Jesus Christ is coming again. Let's put Christ back in Christmas Right back where he belongs Let's put Christ back in Christmas And back in your favorite Christmas songs Jesus, the long-haired savior Had a very shiny glow. And if you ever saw it You would call it a ha-lo. Let's put Christ back in Christmas (the true meaning of the season) Right back where he belongs Let's put Christ back in Christmas And back in your favorite And back in your favorite And back in your favorite Christmas songs. Jingle bells, go to hell if you do not pray. -Pat Godwin and the McGonnegal Brothers <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMo_A6eHn14&fmt=18" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...4&fmt=18</a> (with DJs laughing)
Originally Posted By plpeters70 I think you all are being a little cynical here. Just because people don't focus on Jesus doesn't automatically mean that Christmas is about nothing more than "Getting while the gettings good". What about all the people who spend time buying and wrapping gifts for those who are less fortunate than they are. Or those who help prepare Christmas meals for the poor. Or about all the families getting together to celebrate the holiday. Sure, American corporations focus on the "getting" side of Christmas and try to sell you all they can. But that doesn't mean that everyone else in America buys into all that crap. Yes, Christmas is a time for Christians to celebrate the birth of their savior. But what is so wrong with others using that celebration to also spend time with family and friends, and just have a happy, joyful day together. Would Jesus really care that people weren't specifically celebrating him - or would he just be glad that people were celebrating; taking time out of their busy lives to be with those they love. (And also to celebrate the joy of giving and receiving gifts too!!)
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "Within the Christian community that I grew up in, Christmas is totally about Jesus - the rest of the stuff is just added on by a commercial empire who wants people to shop more, spend more, and consume more, all so they can make more money. To take Jesus out of that is to surrender to the commercial aspects of the holiday. I'm not saying I agree with this, but it is a very real concern for the Christian faith." And thus my beef. I grew up with that same view too. However, now I just don't see why his birthday can't be "pulled away" from December 25th to stop it being associated with the commercialized stuff. Besides, all of the Christian families I grew up with had all of the same commercial trappings everybody else did, all while saying it was about Jesus' birth. You can't have it both ways, yet complain about it. I do know there are some people who only celebrate the religious aspect, and that's fine.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Would Jesus really care that people weren't specifically celebrating him>> For the sake of argument let's assume he exists and that the message of the Gospel is true and correct. I can't see how he would be pleased that so many reject his offer of Salvation while celebrating the feast that was dedicated to his incarnation. Angry? Probably not. Sad? Possibly. So while wishing each other well is all good and nice, that's not why He became flesh. He did so to save us from our sins.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Thanks, but I don't need saving.> That opinion is fine. Nobody is going to force you to believe differently. But many of us believe every person needs saving, and we'll do a lot to help teach people about it.
