Originally Posted By damon63 I love the lagoon show concept! I'm curious to hear the music soundtrack (if there is one) that goes with it. Does anyone know of any English links to media reviews/reports of TDS?
Originally Posted By lookcloser15 "If they did build TDS in CA do you think it would hurt Disneyland U.S.A.? " Well, on pure speculation, I would think it would end up helping the entire Resort area. If they opened a park that got rave reviews and had such a Wow factor, I imagine word would spread quickly. It might even sell out (as it is in Japan), which would then push overflow into Disneyland.
Originally Posted By damon63 Unless Disney has some kind of magic force controlling the minds of the Japanese I can't see how TDS won't canniblize attendance at TDL a bit - at first. I've been to TDL and it's nothing AT ALL like what I'm seeing in these photos.
Originally Posted By Marc -DL Traveler As I've gone into some detail about in previous posts to this little corner of LP, I feel TDL is lopsided. For example, I feel it's Rivers of America area (including Big Thunder), Critter Country, Toontown, and parts of Adventureland are wonderful. But, although perfectly maintained, Tomorrowland, much of Fantasyland, and giant Central Plaza are in real need of design upgrades. Please don't misunderstand. These areas aren't "ugly". They just appear dated and somewhat plain when compared to the richly themed areas in TDL I just mentioned. But here's the real kicker for me - I feel TDL's absolutely stunning Critter Country pales in comparison to very much of DisneySea. (But the incredible Grandma Sara's still takes my prize as my favorite themed dining location... even compared to Vulcania, Grandma Sara's still wins in my book.) The process of upgrade is, in a sense, underway in Fantasyland with the recent additions of Hunny Hunt and its shop, Queen of Hearts, the redo of the tea cups, and the overall upgrade of the area in which these things are located. Tomorrowland has a very mind-blowing total overhaul (wouldn't even be called Tomorrowland anymore) on the drawing boards that I would love to see happen, despite my nostalgic appreciation of TDL's last existing (and, again, perfectly maintained) example of what's in essence the 1967 Tomorrowland (even though the park was built in '83!). The Central Plaza also has what looks like a smart plan for its redo, which includes tiered areas that would not only provide more and better viewing for the parades and shows, but would also break up the the area's vast expanse of slurry and cement, as well as give it a more Disneyland like symmetry in relation to the lands which surround it. I our first interview, Eddie Sotto (former Executive Designer of Tokyo Disneyland - the man in charge for WDI) lent some of his insight on the subject of TDL in relation to DisneySea. About DisneySea next to Disneyland in California - Pretending it's some strange alternate reality where Americans are obligated to by omiyage, have a very large, reasonably well paid market sector with virtually no living expenses (office ladies), are absolutely obessed with overseas travel, regularly save nearly all their money so they can blow it on vacation... (I could go on), my personal feeling is that I wouldn't want to see a DisneySea on the order of Chiba's go in next to Walt's Disneyland. I firmly believe it would overshadow Disneyland to such an extent that the steps Disneyland would have to take to compare favorably would lead to Disneyland, well, not being the Disneyland I love anymore. I'm fine with that happening at TDL, but I really don't want to see that sort of wholesale change it at Disneyland. Marc p.s. I can't see DisneySea canniblizing attendance at TDL. It just too beloved by too many people. The children and office ladies will always be suckers for its "kawaii-ness" (cuteness - "kawaii-ness", of course, is not a word .
Originally Posted By Marc -DL Traveler About low light pics, I've been practicing with this camera and I think you'll see a lot more and better interiors in my next round of pictures. Marc
Originally Posted By woody >>I'm fine with that happening at TDL, but I really don't want to see that sort of wholesale change it at Disneyland. It sounds like you really enjoyed your trip to TDS and TDL, but don't say TDS doesn't belong in the Disneyland Resort. DCA is so lacking, it will take a miracle to ever catch up with Disneyland. TDS will remain lightyears beyond Disneyland and DCA. You acknowledged that TDS outshines TDL. So now TDL will get a Tomorrowland, Central Plaza, and Fantasyland redo. That's what the Disneyland Resort needs. A complete redo of Tomorrowland, Toontown, and Fantasyland (especially It's a Small World). Everything in DLR needs a fix-up, I'm not kidding. Japan doesn't know how good they got. They have a lousy economy but it doesn't hurt them from making the best products in the world!!!
Originally Posted By Marc -DL Traveler Woody wrote: "DCA is so lacking, it will take a miracle to ever catch up with Disneyland." No, it will just take time (and money, of course.) And I hope it always stays one step behind Disneyland. I still very regularly visit Disneyland in California. Believe me, I know how good I've got it. But the DLR and TDR are very different places in, well, very differnt places... and that will never change. Marc
Originally Posted By hopemax >I firmly believe it would overshadow Disneyland to such an extent that the steps Disneyland would have to take to compare favorably would lead to Disneyland, well, not being the Disneyland I love anymore. You know what, I think that's okay. I've spent a lot of time reading about Walt and the people he worked with and I have a suspicion that if something were to be built in Anaheim that made Disneyland pale in comparison, Walt's reaction would be, "What took you so long!" I don't think he built Disneyland with the idea that people would be afraid to push the bounds of family entertainment because it may make his little park look bad. It may take all of us a little time getting used to, but we can learn.
Originally Posted By woody >>No, it will just take time (and money, of course.) And I hope it always stays one step behind Disneyland. Disneyland is a 40+ year old park. DCA is less than 1 year old. TDS is 0 years old. I would expect each new park to build upon the 40+ years of theme park experience like what TDS has done. Disneyland and DCA needs major overhauls. Disneyland needs it because its old, you can't help that. DCA is new... go figure. DCA will stay one step behind. It's almost assumed. Getting back to TDS. It's so awesome. I will definitely go to Japan. I didn't expect to vacation there so soon. I love that lagoon show. PARK ENVY.
Originally Posted By Marc -DL Traveler Hopemax, I was speaking very specifically in relation this VERY hypothetical DisneySea next to Disneyland. DisneySea isn't just an over the top park, it, of course, has a distinct personality, an overlying philosophy. I feel that philosophy spells trouble for a Magic Kingdom style, a "Walt" style, park. DisneySea is another animal entirely. In much of DisneySea (and no jokes about Disneyland maintenance! the paint is "faded", the facades are "crumbling" and "dirty", "moss" and "bird droppings" are common, a big chunk of it is a lifeless hell that looks as if it's about to explode... I've read a lot about Walt Disney, too. Oh I don't want to even get close to that "What would Walt think?" or "What would Walt do?" area... but despite what I think are the fascinating and practical ways in which DisneySea mirrors the Magic Kingdom parks, I don't see it as a "Walt" park. It strives far to much for realism to be that. I was taken aback by my reaction to TDL after spending some time at DisneySea. Much of TDL struck me as - fake... in a way that it really hadn't before. I feel Disneyland would lose much of its charm, much of what it is, if it were forced to compete (which it would be) with this very hypothetical (thank goodness) DisneySea park across the way. I'm not at all opposed to change at Disneyland, but thankfully, I believe the historic direction of that change has, to a great extent, been carefully executed to stay in line with the idilic fantasy at the core of what the park is. More generally, I don't feel there's the need for some sort of "super park" at the DLR. I believe that the envelope should be, can be, and needs to be pushed at Disneyland and DCA. And I feel there's plenty of physical and creative room there to do it. Marc p.s. Again, I think TDL, with some work, will be fine - Kawaiiiiiiiii!!!
Originally Posted By Britain In my humble opinion, the imagineers shouldn't have ever had this "Don't want to make Disneyland look bad" notion. Did Walt hesitate building the Matterhorn because it would dwarf Sleeping Beauty's Castle? Did the Imagineers hesitate building Space Mountain or Big Thunder because it would detract from the Matterhorn? Did WDI stop plans on the Haunted Mansion because there was already a beloved audio-animatronic-filled gruesome-yet-family-friendly attraction in New Orleans Square? No, no, no. Disney used to keep raising the bar. And if there was something along the lines of DisneySea in the parking lot, guests would leave the place saying to themselves, "Wow, Disneyland just keeps getting better and better." They see the second park as simply an extention of the first ...hence all the "What-the...I have to pay a second admission?" But now the bar was lowered, and perhaps this whole "Don't want to make Disneyland look bad" has more sinister notions. Perhaps it means "Gee, the last attraction we added was Indy. That just raised the bar too far. We need to make a course correction, and get it into the guests' heads that the newest attractions won't always be better attractions." But, as Pressler said, it's still taking time for the public to swallow the new concepts behind DCA.
Originally Posted By jmcobery I have a great Idea! why not put this park in the number (1) vacation capital of the world? mmmm! were could that be? mmmm! guess what "FOLKS" it's in Orlando Florida!!!!!! We want it, and we what it now. Let the people in Disney managment know, that we, the American's should have this park in our back yard, not and ocean away. Still enjoying all the picture's, keep them coming. The Cobery Family
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> Marc-DL Traveler: ...the paint is "faded", the facades are "crumbling" and "dirty", "moss" and "bird droppings" are common... << I wonder how the look of DisneySea will impact the park's maintenance budget. There's some ironies about the more realistic look of parts of the park. On one hand, the more weathered appearance may allow longer periods of time between required touch-ups of the facades, but when they do have to be re-painted, it probably will take more time and talent (and dollars?) to do the renovation work properly. Even an amateur wall painter like me could do work on many Disneyland (Tokyo or Anaheim) facades, but when it comes to DisneySea, I don't think so. Speaking of maintenance, I wonder how the cost of running and maintaining DisneySea will compare with other Disney parks, the other seaside Disney park -- which is exposed to the harsher condition of the ocean environment -- Tokyo Disneyland, in particular. >> Britain: And if there was something along the lines of DisneySea in the parking lot, guests would leave the place saying to themselves, "Wow, Disneyland just keeps getting better and better." << There's no question that a park like DCA certainly isn't casting a bright spotlight on Disneyland and Anaheim in general. A fantastic new park next to the old lady (or grande dame) of Disney parks would run the risk of overshadowing her too much, but the opposite extreme is what I think we Disneylander/Anaheimers got stuck with instead. I think the Disneyland Resort may wobble -- financially and image-wise -- for some time to come because of this.
Originally Posted By WeirdOne Hey, Marc, this is in regards to an Aquatopia comment you made in your article... >>Marc: It's too bad. I wanted to like this attraction. << I think that tis comment was kindof biast on your side. I mean, was it REALLY that bad. I personally find Aquatopia to be the "hit of the land" (NOTE: I have my own categories for hits and rides and what not.) So, I was just wondering, could you explain to me waht was so wrong with it that you couldn't like it even 0.0000000000001% Thanks! Great Pics and AWESOME Work! The WeirdOne
Originally Posted By Marc -DL Traveler WeirdOne, First thank you very much for your kind words here and in the other post. I'm sorry to say it, but Aquatopia really was *that* bad when I rode it... I heard from a source I trust that even Paul Pressler didn't like it despite having previously argued that it would be better use of the technology than Hunny Hunt. (It's really not even close.) Hey, at least he admitted it's boring. I keep forgetting to mention this! - After the press preview they drained it (again) and I learned something that needs to be fixed in my review. I wrote: "There was also a great deal of vibration in the Aquatopia vehicles, giving me the impression they were riding over a grooved surface, which, to my knowledge, they are not." My knowledge wasn't sufficient because when I saw the drained "harbor", it turns out that most of the bottom *is* smooth, but the paths in which the vehicles travel ARE grooved, quite roughly so. That sentence in my review in its corrected form: "There was also a great deal of vibration in the Aquatopia vehicles due to the grooved surface they travel on." (You reading, Doobie? I'm told the harbor was drained 'til Aug. 20th. I know why. I really know why. They were spreading a layer of "rubber" over the grooved paths to smooth out the ride. I know so well because I was there while they were doing some of it and the smell of that stuff was so strong that it stayed with me for the rest of the day. I'll ride it again soon and we'll hopefully have to change that sentence again... But there's really only so much that can be done to spice up Aquatopia as it currenty is. Personally, I think a more involved rethinking of the attraction, one that adds an element of interactivity to it, could turn it into a real winner. I'm tellin' ya', the "hit of the land", (and damn nearly the entire park) is StormRider! StormRider!! StormRider!!! Marc
Originally Posted By OrlandoBoi "Let the people in Disney managment know, that we, the American's should have this park in our back yard, not and ocean away." Or as my aunt said to me last night here in Perth, Western Australia-"those Americans DON'T KNOW how spoiled they have been all this time!" I am just glad that the TDR and TDS is my "local" Disney theme park. 12 days until the odyssey begins!!! *Shaking with excitement*
Originally Posted By Marc -DL Traveler Disneywatcher, Although future maintenance cost was an issue for OLC (wouldn't know it if I weren't told!), you're absolutely right about the skilled painters that'll be needed to maintain DisneySea. It'll also be interesting because normally it's trained OLC personel (in most cases they're artists contracted from outside who are later asked to join OLC if they take to the Disney/OLC way) who oversee painting projects, not WDI. They do a great job on tricky things like Big Thunder and Critter Country though... And due to the damaging effect to Tokyo Bay (as you mentioned) and the extremes in the weather, the aging simply can't be allowed to become real. One thing is certain, DisneySea creates a lot of work for Japan's many "starving artists". Marc
Originally Posted By damon63 >It's not? How is it different?< Pretty much everything at TDL is a duplicate of the same attraction here in the states. For example Cinderella's Castle is an exact replica of the one in Florida. Pirates is lifted from Disneyland, The Haunted Mansion is from Florida, most of Tomorrowland looks like WDW's with the exception of Space Mountain which is the Anaheim version. A lot of the restaurants and shops are duplicates as well. The park is pretty, beautiful in fact. However, there's nothing particularly outstanding about it's attractions other than they are the "best of" from Disney parks here in America. This is especially true if you compare them to the more elaborate and "customized" versions at DLP in France. In other words TDL should pale in comparison to TDS. I would imagine that with such a spectacular park next door TDL will probably loose a few guests, at least in the beginning.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher The first non-Disney site on the Internet that I'm aware of that has posted an article about DisneySea's upcoming premiere: <a href="http://www.tokyoclassified.com/tokyofeaturestories/tokyofeaturestoriesinc.htm" target="_blank">http://www.tokyoclassified.com /tokyofeaturestories/tokyofeaturestoriesinc.htm</a>
