Originally Posted By woody Is the S.S. Columbia a real ship? Or a mock up, or was once a ship before. I'm sure it won't leave the docks. It has no place to go. If DCA had half the theming of TDS, it will be more of a success, but we'll never know.
Originally Posted By hermitfrodo Hello Marc: Please explain "Japan's unique economic realities"...in 500 words or less;-)
Originally Posted By daffy1 I see that American Water front is very detailed down to the streats. From what I saw with your pictures it look like they took a part of America town and put in Japan. Great Camera work Mac. What f-stop did you use to get these pictures? Is the camera digital or does it use film? I have to say that your pictures have blow me away with the detail in them. Keep up the Great work.
Originally Posted By OrlandoBoi Think of the American Waterfront as being like Main Street. Main Street may have a cinema and/or some kind of variation on the Lincoln show. AW has the Broadway Theater and the incredible attraction within itself that is the Columbia. And I think that this was the area that ToT was originally meant to go into. This may eventually happen. In the meantime, this area of the park is another complement to an incredibly immersive thematic experience.
Originally Posted By kodpeace Hi Woody, SS Columbia is just a building (I remember driving past it when it was mostly steel framework). By the way, one of the unfortunate consequences of riding the resort monorail is that you get a clear view of the other side of Columbia, where a service elevator is evident and you can see cast members going in and out. There are saplings & bushes planted to eventually conceal the backstage areas, but for now there is just way too much in plain view from the monorail. -kodpeace
Originally Posted By buzby6 All the pictures of Tokyo DisneySea are amazing, and I think it may be one of the most beautiful parks Disney has done. It is interesting that today, on this very website, there was some feedback from some preview visitors and the reaction was mixed. This isn't the interesting part----this park just opened afterall. A few Japanese guests felt that there weren't enough rollercoaster rides. Oriental Land stated that they did plan on adding more attractions and would do whatever it takes to increase attendance. Contrast that to Disney Parks elsewhere, where Disney park attendance in Florida is dropping like a stone and they don't understand why. Could it be that Disney World is only adding spinning Aladdin and Dinosaur rides and building hotels at an alarming rate? Could be! The Magic Kingdom hasn't had a boffo new ride in a LOOOONG time. Wake up, Eisner! Looking at Tokyo DisneySea, I have to wonder WHERE they can expand. The map shows some room in the Lost River Delta, the Arabian Coast (maybe for an Aladdin ride?) and American Waterfront (Tower of Terror?). Where else can they build additions?
Originally Posted By woody >>Is it just me or does American Waterfront need a ride or two?? Asking for a ride in American Waterfront is like asking for a ride in Pacific Wharf or Bountiful Valley Farm. American Waterfront has a wonderful Encore Broadway show, period cars rides, stores, restaurants, and a big "Titanic" ship. Pacific Wharf has two walkthru food exhibits, a food court, and a show stage. Bountiful Valley Farm has Bugs Life, a tractor, and playground.
Originally Posted By damon63 >I see that American Water front is very detailed down to the streats.< Okay, this is total nit-picking but I was kind of dissapointed with the street details in some areas of the AWF. With all of the painstaking detail in the AMF why didn't they use cobblestones to pave the street and bricks along the sidewalks? The streets look to "clean" in comparison to all of the visual stuff going above ground level. It all looks so real until you see the streets and sidewalks that look like they were lifted from the "faux" Hollywood Blvd at Disney MGM. Not a big deal but I found it to be a little distracting. >Looking at Tokyo DisneySea, I have to wonder WHERE they can expand. The map shows some room in the Lost River Delta, the Arabian Coast (maybe for an Aladdin ride?) and American Waterfront (Tower of Terror?). Where else can they build additions?< I read an article recently somewhere which stated that only 60% of TDS's area has been developed.
Originally Posted By Briguy1314 "Think of the American Waterfront as being like Main Street." Well then what should Med. Harbor be considered? It too is devoid of rides. "Asking for a ride in American Waterfront is like asking for a ride in Pacific Wharf or Bountiful Valley Farm." And many have been asking for an attraction or two in there areas. At least BV Farm has once actual attraction.
Originally Posted By reddon This is a little late. But as I trying to catch up reading Jim Hill's Muppet series, I think this is a response to those who said Disney can't built something like TDS here because of money, culture etc. "What exactly was so crucial about Disney locking up Jim's services well into the next millennium? From having worked closely with Henson during his tenure as head of children's programming at ABC, Eisner knew that Henson was an originator. A guy who didn't build on the ideas of others, but -- rather -- came up with brash new concepts all on his own. A man who -- like Walt Disney -- thought outside of the box. A guy who saw opportunities where others just saw adversity."
Originally Posted By OrlandoBoi I said th think of it as being LIKE Main Street, Bribuy. Of course it is NOT completely analogous. I think you have to look at the overall attraction quality of TDS before making cynical judgements as some are prepared to do. I for one(and I know there are MANY others)am prepared to accept a park with twenty odd opening attractions when a good four or five of them are "blow you out of your seat" E-tickets. If Eisner were building parks with this calibre of attractions(again, quantity is secondary)people WOULD be beating down the gates to get in!
Originally Posted By damon63 Hmmm.. I was wondering today.. If TDS isn't the huge success that they hope it'll be, who will the critics have to blame? Eisner? Pressler?
Originally Posted By woody You can't blame Eisner and Pressler for convincing OLC to have a carnival in a parking lot. That's a good thing!!!
Originally Posted By woody To be fair to TDS, let's wait until TDS is opened before we make any pronouncements. DCA wasn't declared a disaster until after it opened to a sparse crowd. Even the most harshest critics reserved judgement until after they saw it for themselves, myself included. BTW, the pictures of TDS continues to surpise me.
Originally Posted By jonvn "DCA wasn't declared a disaster until after it opened to a sparse crowd." No, Woody, that's really not true. It was derided in an extremely harsh manner from the moment the project was announced. Long before anyone even knew what was going to be in the park. That is but one ridiculous aspect upon which all this hatred has been heaped. Then, shortly after it opened, some of the people who dennounced so severely (such as Jim Hill) wrote articles about how they were eating crow with regards to how nice it is compared to what everyone was saying about the place prior to opening. People who actually go to the park, without the intent of hating it, generally seem to enjoy the place. But that's the whole origin of all this anti-DCA talk. Most of it is unjustified, started by one individual with some self-made senseless vendetta. Some of it is true, yes. The park is not perfect, and no one claims that it is, nor have they ever. But mostly the comments are just extreme and inappropriate. Now, it might be true that some people simply don't like DCA. Or that they feel it is deficient. In some ways, I do as well, again, it is not perfect. But I never expected it to be perfect, and I enjoy what is built there, because what is built there is enjoyable and fun. But what is amusing to me in all this is the reaction to the article I posted on another thread. The same sorts of things being said about TDS that were being said about DCA by the people rushing to defend their beloved park (that none of them have been to). Not only that, but that people are so primed to do nothing but complain about DCA, that they started dragging in their complaints about DCA when the topic was just about TDS and public reaction to that. Can't have a conversation without bringing in DCA to bash is the rule, it seems. But I am enjoying the flailing and upset caused by the fact that the Japanese may not be so different from Americans after all. And that they might not want to have to walk over a 118 acre theme park just to ride 4 or so rides. Or that while the vaunted theming is considered so wonderful here, the general public doesn't seem to care about it, and simply want to have fun. Staring at buildings, in my opinion, is not the height of ecstasy, and is probably not for a good number of other people as well. Thus the reactions. Gee. Some people have said they think it is "right" somehow that TDS was built in this manner. No. That's wrong. What is right is building a park that the public as a whole enjoys, not building a park that a few people think is good because they have some internally created concept of what is correct or not. What is right is doing that, and doing that in a manner that allows for it to stay in business financially. If the place can't stay afloat financially, it will close and cease to exist. Why this is not understood by some folks, I simply can not fathom. So, now some people are going to the park, and have some complaints about it. Of course, the story reporting that is a hatchet job by the reporter. Not that any of the articles about DCA have ever been hatchet jobs. Oh no. Not that. Those have all been deadly accurate, of course. It's laughable. But sure, TDS is going to get itself a lot of visitors. Theme parks in the Tokyo area do extremely well. Universal Studios just recently opened to the biggest theme park crowds in history. TDL was sold out for a very long time when it opened, too. It's not a surprise. The question, and this question has been raised before, and shouted down by those who have to support TDS while bashing DCA, is will this park with the current roster of attraction sustain its popularity? Is the theming worthwhile when people don't seem to care about it? Will the place be able to stay open when if it starts losing large amounts of money like the similarly expensive EDL? Time will tell, but maybe some folks will start to realize that what they think is not RIGHT, and that those of us who have a different opinion might have some value to what we say as well. Maybe it would be nice, then, that they stopped being insulting and dismissive. It is amazing to me how many insulting comments have been flung at me, and how many put downs I, and others, have had to deal with here because others seem to think they know what they are talking about and we, of course, are either stupid, company shills, or apologists. I think it's time for some folks to adjust their attitudes. I've pretty much given up posting on here for a while because it's gotten simply too difficult to slog through the nonsense. I enjoy discussing this subject matter, and find it interesting. I like theme parks, and Disney theme parks. But that's not what this bulletin board is about, it seems. It's about who can insult DCA the harshest, and who can insult who the most because they like going to a theme park. I've gotten kind of sick of it. Maybe it will go away soon, and I hope so. But until then, I definitely am limiting what I say here. There isn't much point in trying to talk to a bunch of brick walls.
Originally Posted By OrlandoBoi And for about the fiftieth time this evening....let me reiterate that I *AM* anticipating visiting DCA to see if there IS actually something worthwhile in the place. You DO NOT seem like an unintelligent man jon and YOU find things worthwhile there(as do others)so perhaps I will too. jon wrote, "It was derided in an extremely harsh manner from the moment the project was announced." Well-you may be surprised to know that after seeing promotional art of hangliders flying over redwoods and what seemed like half of the Florida Studios I actually put off my Millenium trip until after DCA opened. Given how scaled back things were from the concepts I originally saw(and based a very major decision on)you may be able to now understand a little of my frustrations.
Originally Posted By woody I will only respond to this. >>>But I am enjoying the flailing and upset caused by the fact that the Japanese may not be so different from Americans after all. And that they might not want to have to walk over a 118 acre theme park just to ride 4 or so rides. People don't enjoy walking long distances for anything. At DCA, you can walk 20 yards and ride Screamin', GRR, or Soarin' and then that's it for E-Tickets. Since those are the marque attractions, not riding them is a real problem. You're trading DCA's lack of E-Tickets to TDS' distance between E-Tickets and those TDS E-Tickets are BIG attractions with BIG SPECIAL EFFECTS. >>> Or that while the vaunted theming is considered so wonderful here, the general public doesn't seem to care about it, and simply want to have fun. It seems like from all the negative DCA articles, theming is really important to Americans. Some articles decry it as being non-Disney. Americans know about Disney's theming and presume the Japanese know about it. Having fun and good theming seem to go hand-in-hand.
Originally Posted By Briguy1314 "DCA wasn't declared a disaster until after it opened to a sparse crowd. Even the most harshest critics reserved judgement until after they saw it for themselves, myself included." I definately have to disagree with that, Jonvn put it so nicely that I really dont need to explain it further. You may have reserved jugement woody, but many others didnt.
