Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<Since the Republicans are the party of civil rights and freed the slaves I think we can say we have done allot more for minorities then the Dems>> This assertion has always made me chuckle. Dabob has largely squelched this line of argumentation, but to drive home some of the points. *In 1858, the Democratic Party was the party of state rights? Who is that party today, Donny? *During the pre and post-Civil War periods, the Democratic Party was the party of limited government. Who's is that party today, Donny? * In the antebellum south, the Democratic Party was the party of "traditional values." Who is that party today, Donny? *Prior to the Civil War and particularly during reconstruction, the Democratic Party was the party of low taxes. Who is that party now, Donny? (references available upon request)
Originally Posted By DAR 41 responses and we get nothing but finger pointing and history lessons. The real question is what do we do with those whose sole purpose it is to come from Mexico to America to participate in the illegal drug trade. Two options. 1. Legalize drugs in America. But since that will never fly then you do option 2. 2. Have the DEA, FBI, INS and local law enforcement in AZ, NM and TX be allowed to enforce the law by arresting and deporting those who chose to break the law.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>41 responses and we get nothing but finger pointing and history lessons.<< If someone completely misrepresents history, it's worth correcting. >>The real question is what do we do with those whose sole purpose it is to come from Mexico to America to participate in the illegal drug trade.<< Except that's not the real question and it never has been. Governor Brewer is wrong and her statements that "most" illegal immigrants are packing drugs has been disputed by border patrol agents. Furthermore, local law enforcement and the DEA has never been restricted to somehow not be allowed to do their jobs in regards to immigrants caught breaking drug laws. If an illegal immigrant is caught with illegal drugs, they can be arrested and they can be deported. The real question is, should local law enforcement be allowed to assume that because someone speaks with an accent and has brown skin, they are carrying drugs and/or are in the country illegally? Because that's what Governor Brewer and Arizona's new law is suggesting.
Originally Posted By DAR Well maybe if we enforced our border laws in the first place we wouldn't be at this point.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Well maybe if we enforced our border laws in the first place we wouldn't be at this point.<< Sincere question: How are they not being enforced? I'd always thought the issue was that our border is too large to adequately watch 24/7. But if there are laws - beyond the employer laws - that aren't being enforced, I'm all for enforcing them. But if someone sneaks in at the border and the nearest agent is 30 miles away, not much to be done about that. My limited understanding is that this isn't an easy country to just waltz on into. I have a couple of people that work for me who are here on work visas. Anytime they go back home to visit (they're Brazilian) it's a bureaucratic nightmare for them. You need all kinds of paperwork. And they have to travel to San Francisco just to get their documentation; it has to be done in person and there isn't an office here. (Disclaimer: I'm the first to admit I have no clue how it works beyond that; I'm going off of what these guys have told me.) And the fence...well...that's just a joke. Scaling one or demolishing a portion can't be hard. We're well-off people thinking about this problem. If I encounter a fence, I go back and feel mildly inconvenienced. If you're so desperate you've already decided to abandon everything you know and go on foot across the border in the middle of the desert, risking capture, I'm pretty sure a fence isn't going to deter you. If we hadn't let employers get away with hiring illegal immigrants, we most definitely wouldn't be in this mess.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***And the fence...well...that's just a joke. Scaling one or demolishing a portion can't be hard*** On the Penn & Teller BS show they hired a group of illegal immigrants to build a fence, and then break through it in pairs...one pair over, one under, and one through. I think the under group got through first, but all three groups were on the other side in less than a minute iirc.
