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Originally Posted By skinnerbox Exactly. The average American voter is middle class. The corporate backers of the tea party are anything but. The top 2% are conning the middle class tea baggers into voting against their own interests and their children's interest, by promoting the dismantling of social programs which keep average Americans out of poverty, so the top 2% can become even richer. Thankfully, the average American (except "concerned mom" above) is waking up to this harsh reality.
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Originally Posted By fkurucz >>The top 2% are conning the middle class tea baggers into voting against their own interests and their children's interest, by promoting the dismantling of social programs which keep average Americans out of poverty, so the top 2% can become even richer.<< And its not just antipoverty programs, its programs that benefit the middle class. The funny thing about the right wing is that if they had their way the whole country would resemble pre WW2 Alabama: racist and poor. I laugh when they claim that "Right to work laws" bring prosperity, when the reality is that "right to work (for less pay)" states have the lowest median and average wages in the country.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 also have to realize industry wise they do not have union jobs paying someone $100K a year to put bumpers on cars. whether one agrees with that salary of not - northern states have inflated median incomes due to unions and large corporate HQ's being plenty in number. Also I look at a place like Florida for instance and I would get a 5% raise immediately for state income taxes-- my property taxes on a similar house would drop from $15,000 / year to $3000-$4000 - and I would stop paying 10% sales tax and the highest gas prices/ electric rates etc in the country. have to compare total cost of living with things like median income.. that's an issue with stats
Originally Posted By fkurucz "also have to realize industry wise they do not have union jobs paying someone $100K a year to put bumpers on cars." Oh c'mon, UAW workers are not paid $50 an hour. In fact the new hires only get $14 these days. THey can't afford afford to but the cars they assemble. As for lower cost of living in right to work states, I don't buy it (because I've lived there). Maybe the rent is cheaper, but that's about it.
Originally Posted By dshyates WV is anything but a right to work state and it has one of the lowest cost of living AND lowest wages in the nation. A lot of West Virginians aren't rich enough to be poor.
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Originally Posted By vbdad55 Oh c'mon, UAW workers are not paid $50 an hour. In fact the new hires only get $14 these days. THey can't afford afford to but the cars they assemble--- realize it's not the norm for hiring- should have been clearer- but local news here had 2 Ford workers- if I remember right between 25-30 years each in the business..husband and wife.. they each made 6 figures-- 1 installed bumpers and the other used a drill to take burrs off body parts. I bring it up like I bring up union pensions. SOme things are fine and under control and self supporting - let them be. However the 'exceptions' are starting to be more of a factor in why the solid contracts out there aren't working any more- and there needs to be controls on them I mention this story because a friend of mine- a young 40's GP MD in our area was overand they made more than him. So their pensions also that large. Paying for longevity instead of for the job role can lead to issues like this. I am saying that if the xceptions were managed ( including pensions basedon 30+ year actuarial assumptions that are no longer true) -and the local governments did their parts in actually paying in what they are supposed to and not shorting the payments- maybe - just maybe the 'crisis' wouldnot be as bad. However if we just turn a blind eye and don't look at the causes -just either defend the system no matter what - or rip the system no matter what - then we will continue down the path to insolvency. Nothing is all good- or all bad -- the devil is in the details
Originally Posted By fkurucz "but local news here had 2 Ford workers- if I remember right between 25-30 years each in the business..husband and wife.. they each made 6 figures-- 1 installed bumpers and the other used a drill to take burrs off body parts." I'm guessing they put in a lot of OT. My brother used to work for a tire company. The hourly wage in that factory maxed out in the low $20/hr range and there were guys who made 100K per year, by putting in 30+ hours a week of OT.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 may be true- they didn't cover that..but then the media isn't all about details these days if I had a better way of checking I would -- the large automakers pay better and remember this is Chicago where cost of living is fairly high- I did some digging trying to find a non biased site one way or the other - pretty consistently the 'average' GM salary for the line workers $28-$29 /hr. Now assuming some newbies making $12-%15/hr ( but not as many of those) there has to be others easily in the $40's. $70'S likely an aberation but if indeed it happens to be true for the two on the news- then it needs to be audited now I can tell you the cost including benefits etc- will stretch to $65/hr likely - but that number used for different things than this...
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Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder VB- you gotta start putting quotation marks before things you're responding to-
Originally Posted By vbdad55 "VB- you gotta start putting quotation marks before things you're responding to-" will do ! although apparently from the post missing above they might not have mattered - LOL
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