Originally Posted By mrichmondj << Steve Jobs comes to mind. Instead of aiming for mass mediocrity he aims for excellence, whether it be animation, computers or digital media. I really wish he becomes Disney's next CEO. >> If the stock options scandal at Apple gets any worse, Jobs might be looking for any work he can get. Of course, my bet is that he'll find some underling to pin the blame on and do the prison time while he continues to run the show at Apple.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>If the stock options scandal at Apple gets any worse, Jobs might be looking for any work he can get. Of course, my bet is that he'll find some underling to pin the blame on and do the prison time while he continues to run the show at Apple.<< It would be unfortunate if Jobs were to leave Apple at this point in time. Should a "conventional" CEO take over the helm at Apple, they would most likely fall into the familiar mediocrity we see at other large corps. I think that Windows Vista may be the best thing to happen to Apple in a long time. Because of Vista' ample hardware requirements PC vendors will be pressed to phase out the cheapo low resource, Celeron based PC's and laptops that gave them a major pricing advantage over Apple in the past. With $500 laptops a thing of the past the playing field will be much more level. It will be interesting to see how Apple captializes on this.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<In a sense you are right. There's plenty of people willing to work when it's convenient to them, and if you don't ask them to do a whole lot.>> I don't buy that. Sorry. Americans are known for their work ethic. After all, we don't get months of vacation time (execs and consultants aside) like folks do in Europe and Asia. They just are very tired of seeing their jobs go away, their benefits get cut and absolutely no loyalty shown by management that is 100% driven by the bottom line. When capitalism leaves no room for things like basic compassion and human decency, yeah, you get folks who'd rather sit on their butts than be abused by companies that are making very few, filthy rich. <<But the labor that shows up when you ask them to work on New Year's Eve rarely exists anymore -- even at higher wages.>> I'm someone who often works holidays. This year, I worked Halloween, Thanksgiving, all of the following weekend, and Christmas and I work in a very (two actually) professional fields. But, yeah, I was compensated a much higher pay rate and it was my choice ... I wasn't forced into it. When I see more companies going to 24/7 ops and holiday openings etc ... I start longing for the days of my youth in New England where blue laws actually prevented businesses from opening on Sunday. Imagine malls closed on a Sunday. But, again, back in those days there was at least some concern for families and quality of life. Now, we allow children to sleep on the streets while we drive by in $60,000 automobiles and try and justify the unjustifiable. <<I work with a lot of very well paid employees who do work comparable to what a WDW cast member would be asked to do at a wage that is about 4 times higher -- I can rarely count on them to show up at work on the weekday, much less after hours. If I decide to get rid of them, it takes months to get a replacement and the replacement usually has just as little work ethic as the person who got canned.>> Honestly, it sounds like there are some major management issues. <<I wish you could just throw money at people and get them to respond, but that's not the case in 21st century America.>> I don't believe that at all. When WDW starts paying $12 an hour to start, let's see who's right ... oops, oh yeah, we'll both be dead before that happens. <<For one thing, nobody needs money anymore when credit is so easily handed out to anyone with a paycheck. Who needs cash in the bank, when all you need is a minimum wage job to get the credit card that buys the flat screen TV and XBox?>> And whose fault is that? It's utter greed. I know someone who ran into major financial problems and faced a situation of either defaulting on thousands of dollars of credit card debt or not paying health insurance and not buying food for his family. Guess what? He walked out on $40,000 of debt. While the collection agencies were still harrassing him, the SAME credit card comapnies were offering new cards ... it's all GREED. Without sounding like a pinko commie, our version of capitalism has become an anything's justified by the bottom line (short term, of course) greedfest by management. <<mrichmondj, if you're having problems retaining employees at $28/hour, there's a problem with your company's policies.>> Yeah, without knowing what business mrichmondj is in, I'd say that sounds right. People should be able to live on $28 an hour. People should be able to be productive and, depending again on the business, happy or at least satisfied in their jobs.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Steve Jobs comes to mind. Instead of aiming for mass mediocrity he aims for excellence, whether it be animation, computers or digital media. I really wish he becomes Disney's next CEO.>> I don't know whether I agree with the conclusion, but I certainly agree with the type of personality.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>But, again, back in those days there was at least some concern for families and quality of life. Now, we allow children to sleep on the streets while we drive by in $60,000 automobiles and try and justify the unjustifiable.<< It concerns me how so many people just label the poor as 'losers'. <<For one thing, nobody needs money anymore when credit is so easily handed out to anyone with a paycheck.>> It might be 'easy' to get a credit card. But if you are poor it will also be very easy to miss payments and wreck your credit. If credit is so easy to get, then why are payday loan stores popping up like weeds? These establishments are little more than pawn shops, where the working poor pawn future paychecks (usually only days away) for a discounted cash payout.
Originally Posted By Labuda "<<mrichmondj, if you're having problems retaining employees at $28/hour, there's a problem with your company's policies.>> Yeah, without knowing what business mrichmondj is in, I'd say that sounds right. People should be able to live on $28 an hour. People should be able to be productive and, depending again on the business, happy or at least satisfied in their jobs." Being a person who used to make over $20 an hour and now makes less thaan that (freakin' **** former manager of mine at work there), I'd be THRILLED to make $28 an hour. Oh, yeah, and in addition to working at the theatre every weekend, I put in at LEAST 40 hours a week at my "real" job, including occasionally coming in int he middle of the night to catch up if work gets crazy and I start falling behind. I'd say I'm one of those rare Americans who has a work ethic still in this day & age.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost <<In a sense you are right. There's plenty of people willing to work when it's convenient to them, and if you don't ask them to do a whole lot.>> I don't buy that. Sorry.<<< It's pretty obvious that you do not hire people today or even have the current work force as subordinates. There is no work ethic in the US anymore. Everyone is entitled and do not have to pay their dues or work for what they want. All they want is to start at the top and do nothing at all in the line of work to get there. And god forbid that they should have to work on a day that they think they should have off. They will flat out tell you, either give me the day off or I will call in sick. So it doesn't really matter if you, "buy that" or not. It is a fact of modern life.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<In a sense you are right. There's plenty of people willing to work when it's convenient to them, and if you don't ask them to do a whole lot.>> I don't buy that. Sorry.<<< Geez, Sprit, on this one you're truly naive. In New Orleans there are hundreds, if not thousands, of jobs available - everyone is hiring. However, I still see and hear people complaining about the fact that they don't have a job. It's not that they can't find a job, it's that they don't want to work for less than they think they're worth, and if that means sponging off the government, so be it. There are a lot of people who were forced to evacuate after Katrina, at the government's expense, because they didn't leave when they were told before the storm. Now they want the government to bring them home, and they want to live in housing projects that have been closed or condemned since the storm. These places were supposed to be temporary solutions until people could get back on their feet, yet some people have lived there for 20 and 30 years. There was a woman on the front page on the Times-Picayune in the days following Katrina, on her hands and knees begging for someone to rescue her from the Superdome. She's currently living in San Antonio and works only 30 hours a week as a parking lot attendant because, and I quote, "Too much money makes (me) nervous". Mind you, her rent is being completely covered by FEMA, and she's living the high life in San Antonio. You've got to be stupid to think that every American on this earth is ready and willing to work his butt off each and every day. Nothing is further from the truth. There are those of us who work, and those who profit from the work of others through government programs such as welfare. Don't tell me there are people who don't work when it's convenient for them. It was like that here in New Orleans bfore Katrina, and it's still like that. I work in the charity hospital system, and I see it EVERY DAY.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj << Geez, Sprit, on this one you're truly naive. In New Orleans there are hundreds, if not thousands, of jobs available - everyone is hiring. However, I still see and hear people complaining about the fact that they don't have a job. >> Great example! It reminds me of when I was flying back home over the Thanksgiving holidays. On the plane with me were 10 workers from the local area power plant. The power company had flown them down to New Orleans for 3 weeks to fill a labor shortage there and then flew them back home to their home base. What sort of highly skilled labor was this that was so valuable that it needed to be flown in from out of state? Well, remarkably, these were all unskilled laborers who make a living as linehandlers on the power company's river boats. They tie up the boats and barges to the pier. Apparently, you can't find quality labor on the Gulf Coast to do unskilled jobs, so you have to spend the big bucks to fly it in and pay folks per diem. Really a sad commentary on the current labor environment. I can also relate some woes in the skilled labor environment. Blue collar labor, like welding, is in such short supply nationwide that manufacturing companies are turning down contracts for more work because they cannot find adequate workers to fulfill the new contracts. It seems Americans aren't all that interested in getting their hands dirty anymore, even if the pay is good.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<It's pretty obvious that you do not hire people today or even have the current work force as subordinates. >> You'd be mistaken. <<There is no work ethic in the US anymore.>> Bull. I have a work ethic. So don't most of my co-workers and those under me. No, it might not be the same as it was say 20 years ago. But do US companies treat their employees the same as then? Not even close. <<Everyone is entitled and do not have to pay their dues or work for what they want. All they want is to start at the top and do nothing at all in the line of work to get there.>> That's true to an extent. But that's part of the entitlement mentality that has been encouraged by our government. If everyone's a victim, you can blow off and abuse those who truly need help. Nepotism and discrimination in the workplace run rampant. And management fears smart, strong, competent people ... I'll never forget a certain exec who once told me 'Spirit, you know more about this place and how it runs than I do.' ... and then proceeded to do his best at attacking and diminishing me in any/every way possible because he knew I could do twice the job he did. <<And god forbid that they should have to work on a day that they think they should have off. They will flat out tell you, either give me the day off or I will call in sick. So it doesn't really matter if you, "buy that" or not. It is a fact of modern life.>> Sure. Because in the old days employers would give workers vacations, sick days, personal days ... they'd be able to have off when their child graduated high school or had a doctor's appt. ... they wouldn't have to work on holidays etc ... you only get back what you give. And that's a fact.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Geez, Sprit, on this one you're truly naive. In New Orleans there are hundreds, if not thousands, of jobs available - everyone is hiring. However, I still see and hear people complaining about the fact that they don't have a job. It's not that they can't find a job, it's that they don't want to work for less than they think they're worth, and if that means sponging off the government, so be it.>> I'm sure you know more about the situation in New Orleans than I do, Nikki. ... But if the folks are being offered a chance to work for $6-7 an hour or sit on their behinds, I'd choose the latter too. There's something to be said for getting something out of your work ... working to be poverty-stricken, where you can't even pay your bills and pay for food and meds, isn't the answer. <<You've got to be stupid to think that every American on this earth is ready and willing to work his butt off each and every day. >> Nikki, let's put the negative language into a 1997 refillable mug, OK? I never said, and certainly do not believe every American wants to work. Not even close. <<Nothing is further from the truth. There are those of us who work, and those who profit from the work of others through government programs such as welfare.>> And there are people who need welfare to survive. Even if the Repubs would like those folks to work at Burger King, buy their meds at WalMart and sleep in their 88 Oldsmobile to not sponge of the elite of the USA. <<Don't tell me there are people who don't work when it's convenient for them.>> You're very angry. Counseling might help with that. I didn't say that, so don't put words in my mouth. <<It was like that here in New Orleans bfore Katrina, and it's still like that. I work in the charity hospital system, and I see it EVERY DAY.>> Just out of curiousity, do you feel medical care should be guaranteed to every American regardless of whether they can pay for it?
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Spirit, just because you have a good work ethic does not mean that others do. It is impossible to fill many jobs because no one wants to work for a living when they can get a free ride. It is different than it was even 10 years ago. It is frustrating, to say the least, when you are trying to get the job done and no one is there to do it. That isn't looking at the world through tainted glasses, that is what is happening.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<I'm sure you know more about the situation in New Orleans than I do, Nikki. ... But if the folks are being offered a chance to work for $6-7 an hour or sit on their behinds, I'd choose the latter too. There's something to be said for getting something out of your work ... working to be poverty-stricken, where you can't even pay your bills and pay for food and meds, isn't the answer.>> And sitting on your butt and allowing the government to subsidize you, while you still remain poverty stricken, is? I'd rather have some money coming in than no money at all, or money that the government gives me while I pop out babies left, right and sideways. My niece's boyfriend is a resident anesthesiologist at a hospital here. He recently gave an epidural to an 18 year old girl who was having her EIGHTH child. Do you think she's working hard to support those children? Why should I support a system that provides for someone like this? <<And there are people who need welfare to survive. Even if the Repubs would like those folks to work at Burger King, buy their meds at WalMart and sleep in their 88 Oldsmobile to not sponge of the elite of the USA.>> I can bet you that the amount of people who truly need to be on welfare are outnumbered by the people sponging off the system. Welfare is to help people until the get on their feet - it's not a permanent solution, just as housing projects weren't meant to be a permanent solution - yet you have people who, before Katrina, lived there for 25 years. I'm tired of all the dreck that's being spouted by the bleeding hearts who think every poor person is poor because of the system. Most people are poor because they think they deserve something other than what they've got. My dad worked two jobs to support his family. He had a high school diploma and that was all, but he did what he had to do to support his kids. People don't see things that way anymore - they want to do the minimum amount of work for the maximum amount of money, and if they can't get that then they blame the system for their being poor.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<And sitting on your butt and allowing the government to subsidize you, while you still remain poverty stricken, is?>> If you can work 40-60 hours a week and still not have nearly enough $$$ to support yourself and your family, yes, I do believe it's perfectly OK to expect the government to help you. We love to say we're the most compassionate nation on earth. That's BS of course. Any country that turns people away from medical care and lets them die because they don't have insurance and allows children to live on the streets because it's mom and dad's irresponsible lifestyle that stuck them there, is far, far from it. And, naturally, you sidestepped my question. <<I'd rather have some money coming in than no money at all, or money that the government gives me while I pop out babies left, right and sideways. My niece's boyfriend is a resident anesthesiologist at a hospital here. He recently gave an epidural to an 18 year old girl who was having her EIGHTH child. Do you think she's working hard to support those children? Why should I support a system that provides for someone like this? >> There isn't an easy answer. But what would you do? Do you think it's OK to let those kids grow up without a chance to have a better life to punish mom, who is a child herself? And I'm quite sure in New Orleans that race never plays a factor in anything either, right? I just beleive that a country as wealthy as ours should be able to take care of its own people ... especially as we spend billions a week on sending another country into civil war. But hey, that's my liberal, elitiest, blue-county pride showing. I realize that we have been dumbed down to such an extent that when I was flying a few days ago I got on a flight in Houston (naturally) with a 20-year-old soldier who had his leg mangled in Iraq, spent six months in the hospital (loved his meds) and eventually had two amputation surgeries ... and pathetically he was cheerful and happy about the '25 grand the government will pay me every year for life' and then he said he hoped his girlfriend also in the service would be shipped over there 'so she could see all the good we were doing.' I just didn't have the heart to tell this poor fool he gave up a leg and a large part of his soul for nothing at all. But, again, I understand the political atmosphere quite well. It's all about placing all the responsibility on individuals and giving big business and the rich a free ride. And Nikki, what do you think about the bad show at Epcot on 12/31?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo "We love to say we're the most compassionate nation on earth. That's BS of course. Any country that turns people away from medical care and lets them die because they don't have insurance and allows children to live on the streets because it's mom and dad's irresponsible lifestyle that stuck them there, is far, far from it." Spirit - I like your thinking more and more each day. It saddens me how many of our countrymen are deluded that the US is the best and most caring country in the world. It is far from it, and has much to learn about supporting it's own huddled masses.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> what do you think about the bad show at Epcot on 12/31? << I'd lost track of the fact that this is what this thread was about.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<There isn't an easy answer. But what would you do? Do you think it's OK to let those kids grow up without a chance to have a better life to punish mom, who is a child herself? And I'm quite sure in New Orleans that race never plays a factor in anything either, right?>> Yet another example of someone who DOESN'T live here that has absolutely no idea about what's going on in this city. First off, I would never deny a child healthcare, food or shelter, even if his mother is an idiot who never heard of birth control. Secondly, since you love to bring up the race card in regards to New Orleans, let me straighten something out. The welfare system is a vicious cycle. The chances of that 18 year old girl's kids having "the better life" you talk about is slim to none, because more than likely they'll also be on welfare once they get older. My boss took a shine to one of the former painters here at work before. He was fired from our facility because he never came in to work, but my boss decided to hire him to take care of his home, cleaning, doing yard work and minor repairs. He only works a few hours a day because he's "old" (he's 55, younger than my boss) and says he just gets tired too easily. He's also been in jail several times for misdemeanors. But, in your eyes, he's "the working poor". Believe me, his story is NOT atypical. I see it every day at work with many of the custodians and laborers here. I used to work in Labor Relations, and I assure you that most who were fired were fired because they threatened a co-worker, they brought a weapon on the grounds or they didn't show up for work. These are civil service jobs mind you, so you really have to screw up to get fired. Yet again, in your eyes they're "the working poor". Since you're talking about the race card in relations to New Orleans, what incident are you specifically talking about? When those who stayed behind during Katrina (even though they live in a city below sea level, were told that if the levees broke it would be devastating, and were told repeatedly for years to get out if a CAT 3 or higher storm was headed for the city) decided to loot local businesses for guns, tennis shoes and plasma TVs? When they descended on the Superdome and complained because all they had to eat were hot dogs? When many were given the opportunity to live in FEMA trailers and declined because they refused to live in a trailer? When they stole chairs and furniture from the Superdome during Hurricane Georges? <<I realize that we have been dumbed down to such an extent that when I was flying a few days ago I got on a flight in Houston (naturally) with a 20-year-old soldier who had his leg mangled in Iraq, spent six months in the hospital (loved his meds) and eventually had two amputation surgeries ... and pathetically he was cheerful and happy about the '25 grand the government will pay me every year for life' and then he said he hoped his girlfriend also in the service would be shipped over there 'so she could see all the good we were doing.' I just didn't have the heart to tell this poor fool he gave up a leg and a large part of his soul for nothing at all.>> My God, you are full of yourself! Who are YOU to tell someone who's been on the front lines that he's wrong in his belief that he justly sacrificed for his country? Despite what you or I think of the war, and truthfully I think it's high time we got out of Iraq, you have no right to decide that someone who spent time on the front lines is wrong for believing his sacrifice meant something. To him, it did, and you have absolutely no right to tell him otherwise. By the way, I didn't sidestep your question, I simply forgot to answer it. I think that every American citizen should have access to affordable healthcare.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Screw the republicans, military and wellfare. This topic is about WDW's bad management at EPCOT on dec 31st. Go to World Events if you want to talk about that other stuff.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> Go to World Events if you want to talk about that other stuff. << Agreed. This thread is starting to get as noisy as an FP discussion.
