Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< If I ever have enough freeloader miles or something... >>> ... then anything is possible.
Originally Posted By Mr X Any way to freeload that freefall flight that Steven Hawking just took? THAT'D be cool!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<MY VISIT TO DISNEYLAND PARIS RESORT LACKED THE DISNEY MAGIC AND SPIRIT>> Naturally. I didn't arrive until the following week. At the risk of having you steal some of my thunder ... you bring up some great points I was planning on delving into with my report. Like: <<I toured on a Mon. and Tues. and the park closed at 7.... but the problem is that night didn't arrive until 8:30. Nights in a Disney themepark are priceless. I missed fireworks and the nighttime feel.>> I don't need fireworks to have a real, magical Disney day. But having park close at 6-8 p.m. when there is daylight until close to 9:30 is patently absurd and just a way to save on labor by Karl Holz and George Kalogridis ... the two ex-Fla execs who run the resort (into the ground?) right now and are known at Disney for being slash-and-burn types who can make the bottom line look great in the short term. Being able to spend a full day at DLP, leave, catch the RER to Paris, stop at a supermarket, walk to the Eiffel Tower and picnic (which I did) all before it got dark speaks volumes of their hours of operation. <<Also, there is way, way too much wild west/cowboys and Indians/frontier shops and eats.>> At least they sell themed merchandise (more on this in my upcoming report). And Europeans have a very wild west mentality about the USA (I'm sure our daily school, workplace and mall shootings have nothing to do with that). That translates into a fascination with the old west. I'd rather have this than WDW or DL's versions of Frontierland, which don't feature one item of true western merchandise anymore. <<The Rainforest Cafe was easily the worst out of 6 I have seen--- totally unimpressive.>> Please. If you've seen one, you've seen them all. Complaining about RC is like complaining about the McDonald's at Disney Village. <<(3) Someone needs to tell me what's up with those "undocumented" (meaning non Disney cast members) street vendors who just set up camp near the security bag check area and in the Village who try to sell ugly miniature Eiffel Towers and "I love Paris" t shirts.>> Simple. Disney doesn't control the land they hawk their goods on. And I don't feel it ruins a day there at all. Anymore than the same vendors under the Eiffel Tower do. <<(4) Why is there an unsightly, stupid 3rd rate race kiddie race track right in front of the more upscale New York Hotel. Near by are two more less than carnival grade pay per attractions that I had to look at each time to and from the Sequoia. Talk about debasing the Disney image!>> I wondered about that myself. Very tacky looking 'attraction' on top of where they put an ice-skating rink in winter. <<(5) 4 out of 7 "on property" hotels have the old west theme. How about a little more variety and prettier resort grounds like WDW.>> Prettier? Pop Century is pretty? The All Stars? Heck, even the massive CBR? And where are you getting four. The only one I see as western themed completely is the Cheyenne. You could I suppose put Sante Fe in as well. They are no tackier than the All Star Movies. And Sequioa is a beautiful property. <<They do not get into character like other world destinations. So few, so few indeed, wear anything Mickey.... no need for that famous line "hold on to those hats and glasses" at BTMRR because there aren't any--none! Nobody wears the Mickey ears, t shirts, sweaters or hats/caps. Sure there is the occasional child dress up but so very few.>> Another great point I was planning on bringing up. But not in the way you did. I have no problem whatsoever with Parisians and/or Europeans as a whole not wanting to walk around wearing low quality/WalMart character merchandise. Disney sells crap nowadays. This isn't 15 years ago when you could go to your local Disney Store and buy high-quality and diverse character merchandise. It's all the same. It's cheap. And it's ugly. Paris is a city with style and taste. I understand why they don't want to dress up like the typical Orlando (or Anaheim) fan. That's not a bad thing. But it is a failing on Disney's part. Enjoying the report, so far.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I've always wondered just what the heck Disney was thinking when they developed DLP.>> I dunno. Hmm ... maybe that they'd make billions? <<I've never been to France, but have read a pretty fair amount about the country and their culture. I find it fascinating and would love to visit that country. >> You should. It is amazing. Wonderful. Historical. With some of the best cuisine on the planet and jawdropping historical sites. <<BUT... French culture has got to be the Anti-Disney. What the heck were they thinking? Maybe before they decided to build a theme park there someone from Disney should have spent a week or two in Paris. ;-) By the way... I've read and heard from friends who've traveled to France that if you at least make some type of attempt to speak French, the French people are more than willing to help you with translation. That is certainly more than most Americans are willing to do when confronted with foreign tourists speaking anything other than English.>> That is true. Although you can get 'French 'tude' ... not all that different from 'American 'tude', just manifests itself differently. Like ordering a Coke Light (a better Diet Coke) at McDonald's on the Champs-Elysees from an employee who spoke better English than most folks here in South Florida only to have her give a regular Coke. When told of her mistake, you should have seen the look as she had to walk six feet to the drink machine and get (not even fill, as they were already filled) another. But overall, I find the French extremely friendly and warm people. I'm very much convinced that our government likes to perpetuate certain myths and stereotypes to scare its citizens from visiting other countries because once they open their world views (be it the liberal sex and drugs in the Netherlands or the incredible, inexpensive healthcare in most of Western Europe, or the high speed rail that can whisk you from country to country in less time than it takes to go thru a security checkpoint in the USA), they may suddenly realize all isn't better in America and that our leaders are deluding us for their own agendas. Get out Trippy ... there's a whole world out there. And it even includes three wonderful Disney resorts too!
Originally Posted By leemac <<I asked her about general guest demographics like...."Which nationals(aside from French) visit DLP the most?" To my surprise she said the Spanish and Italians. She came across as very credible so I'll just have to believe her.(I would have bet a lot of $ on Britain and Germany). >> Maybe credible in tone but wrong factually I'm afraid. I don't recall the last stats off the top of my head but for FY06 it was something like: 40% France 20% UK 10% Spain 9% The Netherlands 5% Belgium <5% Germany and Italy each UK dominates. More Brits visit DLRP than WDW at present but between the two a staggering 4.5m visit either resort annually. That is around 8% of the population. If you want the actual stats like attendance, guest spend and visitor makeup the annual report is very open about it and I believe can still be downloaded at: <a href="http://www.eurodisney.com" target="_blank">http://www.eurodisney.com</a>
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Kind of like how they feel about deodorant!!>> At first glance, this might appear racist. But I'll give you some leeway because there's always a bit of truth in stereotypes. I noticed this when we stayed at a hotel situated next to a very kewl indoor water park in Paris. I didn't go because I wasn't going to waste a day when I can go to two great Disney parks here, but I couldn't help but notice that every man was wearing a speedo (no matter the body type, age or country of origin). I noticed a sign saying that they were required and they even had a vending machine selling them for 10 euros each. I couldn't figure out why, but thought this can't be cultural. There must be something else at play. Well, we finally had dinner at a resturant that overlooks the complex and since our server spoke perfect English my dining companion decided to ask the question. The waiter explained that it was for hygiene. That many Frenchmen (and other Europeans) will wear dirty underwear and garments into the water that could make people ill. With speedos, you can't hide a thing (not that I'd want to, of course! but ...) I found that interesting ... especially since WDW resorts always have their pools closed for hours a day after someone's child takes a crap in the water.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<because DLParis is how a Magic Kingdom type park should be--- full of color, style, and substance-- I just wish it had the very important intangible guest excitement like in Tokyo. But what it lacks in guest obsession/guest service of a TDR it well makes in the sheer beauty, marvel and detail. >> Absolutely. It is incredible. What a 21st century MK-style park should be.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<amsterdam is a very interesting city - I do like it - like no where else, especially the window displays. >> Yep. Every make, model, age and color is there for the leasing ;-) Although I must say that personally I wouldn't want to go where so many others have come ... I mean, gone ... before.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Spirit, I agree with pretty much everything you've written!!!>> Great. Thanks I just write it as I see it. Look for much more indepth observations later this week when I can put my trip report together!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<UK dominates. More Brits visit DLRP than WDW at present but between the two a staggering 4.5m visit either resort annually. That is around 8% of the population.>> Yeah. But I've noticed a huge difference in ... not quite sure how to say it as I sit up with jetleg ... attitude at the different resorts. In Orlando, Brits act as if they're in Nirvana and Disney can do no wrong. Maybe it's the fact they're getting a vacation for 50-70% off what other are due to the currency strength of the pound and the weakness of the dollar. But at DLP, many Brits seem to want nothing more than to complain and act superior to the French CMs. I know these nations have had a rivalry since way before America was 'discovered' but it does seem absurd how parochial the two nations are with one another and, as an American, you can't help but notice it.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed Spirit. The UK are lulled into this false sense of magic at WDW and in the main are a pretty grumpy bunch at DLP. I think one of the key issues is language. At WDW, the Brits understand everything, but the same is not true at DLP. I often see the Brits yelling even louder at cast members if they do not understand! Poor form. DLP is pretty magical in it is the closest to a European melting pot one will find, but the flip side is seeing some of the nastiness of each culture coming out too.
Originally Posted By barboy "Unfortunately, flights to Europe are EXTREMELY cost prohibitive from Japan. Anywhere in Asia or North America is much, much cheaper" Well, flights over the Atlantic to western Europe from the Mid Atlantic area(D.C.) are pretty pricy too. For maybe 4,500 miles of air travel we paid about $675 per ticket and we searched for the most favorable time and days to travel. I have noticed that flights inside the US are still quite reasonable even if going "coast to coast" with 3,000 miles of air travel (say $185- $250) but once when one leaves the US the prices seem to skyrocket. And since Wife and I are not employed we always have to buy our own flights and hotels when traveling. (I get jealous when others get their company to send them to seminars/conferences for free to WDW or any other desirable locale ) But we are still looking to cross the Pacific in later June to get some TDR. The last time we went to Tokyo our flights cost $495 and now we are looking at $775 or more.
Originally Posted By barboy "If you've seen one(rainforest Cafe), you've seen them all." I see it very differently Spirit--- the difference between the Anaheim's Downtown Disney Rainforest and San Francisco's Fisherman's Wharf's vs the DLP's Village is huge. The first two I thoroughly enjoy--especially the DTD one while the Village is a very poor version.
Originally Posted By barboy "How about prettier resort grounds like WDW." I am talking about the common resort grounds and layout not the actual hotels per se. DLP's actual hotels are pretty but the grounds of the entire resort should be greatly improved if we use Disney standards. Trash, cigarette droppings, ridiculously positioned carnival grade rides as well as that very centrally located and large hot air balloon(as if it is DLP's overall icon)and an ugly disjunct Village are what I am talking about. Now Spirit I see that you brought up Pop century, All Stars which I agree that they look cheesy--- but here is the biggest difference: those individual hotels on WDW are more or less hidden from common resort area view due to WDW's vastness.
Originally Posted By barboy "And where are you getting four. The only one I see as western themed completely is the Cheyenne. You could I suppose put Sante Fe in as well. (1) Davy Crockett ranch--- Davy Crokett as in Alamo, Texas. (2) Sequoia Lodge--- the giant Sequoia and outdoors of the western US: like the "Montana", "Sierra", "yosemite" and "Monterey" rooms and wings. (3)Hotel Cheyenne---"hang your 10 gallon hat here in the wild wild west" according to Disney. (4)Santa Fe--- "experience those southwest starry nights" compliments of DLP's web page.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Agreed Spirit. The UK are lulled into this false sense of magic at WDW and in the main are a pretty grumpy bunch at DLP. I think one of the key issues is language. At WDW, the Brits understand everything, but the same is not true at DLP. I often see the Brits yelling even louder at cast members if they do not understand! Poor form.>> Yes. I saw plenty of that. I never had a problem with a CM at DLP that either didn't understand English or couldn't still communicate. But it was very clear many Brits were unhappy that CMs didn't speak the proper Queen's English. <<DLP is pretty magical in it is the closest to a European melting pot one will find, but the flip side is seeing some of the nastiness of each culture coming out too.>> No doubt about it. But I also see it bring out the best too. Just like at WDW, it tends to bring out both the best and worst out depending on the individual.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<But we are still looking to cross the Pacific in later June to get some TDR. The last time we went to Tokyo our flights cost $495 and now we are looking at $775 or more.>> Even $775 sounds like a helluva deal to me. Of course, I just flew to Europe for free, but that's what piling up half a million FF miles will do for you
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I see it very differently Spirit--- the difference between the Anaheim's Downtown Disney Rainforest and San Francisco's Fisherman's Wharf's vs the DLP's Village is huge. The first two I thoroughly enjoy--especially the DTD one while the Village is a very poor version. >> I have been to the DD Fla, DD Anaheim and Sunrise, Fla Rainforest Cafes ... and walked thru many others. They all seem the same to me ... loud, tacky, over-priced and with mediocre food. I certainly don't see the attraction many people have for them. Then again, they did close about a dozen locations before Landry Restaurants took over, so clearly a lot of industry leaders greatly overestimated their popularity (Planet Hollywood anyone?).
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I am talking about the common resort grounds and layout not the actual hotels per se. DLP's actual hotels are pretty but the grounds of the entire resort should be greatly improved if we use Disney standards. Trash, cigarette droppings, ridiculously positioned carnival grade rides as well as that very centrally located and large hot air balloon(as if it is DLP's overall icon)and an ugly disjunct Village are what I am talking about.>> I basically agree with what you are saying. And the Disney Village is just plain ugly. It needs to be bulldozed and rethought. As to the 'Disney standards' you refer to, you must realize by the convenient application at WDW of late (and DL further back) that it is an ever-flowing, dynamic concept. The management team at DLP is there to guide the resort thru a successfu 15th annivesary campaign, while improving the bottom line and adding capacity to DSP. Disney standards are the absolute last thing on the minds of men like Holz and Kalogridis. It's how they can create a temporary upswing in revenues that can lead to their next exec positions. That's really it. <<Now Spirit I see that you brought up Pop century, All Stars which I agree that they look cheesy--- but here is the biggest difference: those individual hotels on WDW are more or less hidden from common resort area view due to WDW's vastness.>> Tacky is tacky. I don't find the resorts, at least the ones surrounding Lake Disney at DLP, to be tacky at all. I find the area very nice. Disney Village is certainly a different story. But it's been like that since Day 1 when money wasn't an issue. There were creative choices made that ... well, just were bad and ugly and time hasn't improved them at all.
