Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>And why is it everytime that I post something you guys always think I'm wrong<< I don't. But when I think you're wrong, I say so. Since it's a discussion board, I try to explain why. To answer your question, no, I don't think I am any more freaked out when I see someone in full Muslim garb in an airplane (I honestly can't think of any time I've actually seen someone in full Muslim garb get on a flight I was on, but I don't fly very often.) Again, the 9/11 hijackers dressed "business casual" not like Ayatollah Khomeni. I am nervous that someone on a plane might try something, but who knows if it would be someone Muslim or what? It's just strange that it's okay to view Muslims in full religious dress with extra suspicion since I don't know of any hijackings where someone has worn that clothing and hijacked a plane.
Originally Posted By planodisney This is actually a topic that is discussed quite often. I have heard people from both sides of the political spectrum admit to this. i dont usually sense and pride about these feelings and i must admit i feel the same way, just for a moment, but usually talk myself down. i feel realy bad for Juan Williams as he has become a target of the far left for not being radical enough.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 OMG! The Left!! Run for the hills and hide your daughters! Williams was fired by NPR for not following their guidelines. And I happen to believe those guidelines were too rigid if they didn't at least give him a chance to explain - a "when I said I feel those things, I don't say so proudly; in fact, I try to remind myself this is a negative stereotype and confront it..." kind of thing. If he wasn't given that opportunity (and the news stories don't make it SOUND like he did, though I can't say for sure) then I'm with gad and DAR that he got something of a raw deal. He'll still work though. NPR just made the business decision that they didn't want him working for them, rightly or wrongly.
Originally Posted By Labuda Stupid question... what's "full Muslim garb"? I work with a couple of Muslim gentlemen and dated one earlier this year... they all dress like all the white, black, and hispanic dudes I work with or otherwise know.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I'll admit that before I moved to South Florida I had some unnecessary prejudices. I would cross the street if a couple of big black guys were walking toward me. I hated when people wouldn't speak English in public and expected me to speak Spanish if I was in a service business. I was less sensitive to the gay cause (even though I had gay friends). I probably had all sorts of Jewish prejudices because up until I was in my mid 20s I probably only knew a handful of Jewish people if that. What changed? I'd say it was my life experience. I moved to a more diverse area of the country where english is almost the second language and there are people of all types of color and nationality. I've met more gay folks who have continued to shape my impressions. My mother and father both ended up with Jewish spouses and I attended family events where I've come to know more about that faith. When I see a Muslim at the aiport does it give me pause? Well, I will admit that I notice it. But, my mindset is more along the lines of..."gee...it must be hard to be a Muslim in an airport and be worried that people are staring." I don't have any inate fears they are going to cause me harm. I might have been a little more sensitive to that back in 2002, 2003 in the more immediate aftermath of 9/11. Of course, it couldn't have been too easy to be a Japanese American in the decade or two after Pearl Harbor.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<i feel realy bad for Juan Williams as he has become a target of the far left for not being radical enough.>> I don't. Williams just accepted a cool $2 mil contract from Fox News. What a surprise.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Fox News doesn't receive public funding. NPR does. I think you have to question NPR's motives on this one. Anyone who thinks that NPR broadcasters don't inject opinion haven't watch NPR. This guy got fired because his opinion wasn't in line with the CEO's. NPR is hearing it from the right and left on this one. They goofed on this one.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Yes - I'm linking to Fox News. This must be a first for me, but it's an interesting column from Juan Williams about his views on the whole debacle. And yeah - it's a bit self-serving, but so what - he's the "victim" in all of this. Attention Nina Totenberg - watch yer back! JUAN WILLIAMS: I Was Fired for Telling the Truth By Juan Williams Published October 21, 2010 | FoxNews.com <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/10/21/juan-williams-npr-fired-truth-muslim-garb-airplane-oreilly-ellen-weiss-bush/" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/opinion...ss-bush/</a>
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Try looking at this from a Muslim American's point of view. You've heard the stuff they've been saying about Obama -- "accusing" him of being a secret Muslim. Made a lot of noise about his middle name, his place of birth. He's one of "them." Add to it the hysteria over the Not-Actually-At-Ground-Zero-Mosque-That's-Also-Not-Exactly-A-Mosque. People have been painting, for some time now, with pretty broad brushes when it comes to Muslims. Would his statement seem "reasonable" if you were just an average, go-about-your-own-business Muslim? I don't think what he said should have cost him his job. It doesn't rise to that level in my opinion, and especially as it wasn't said on NPR it seems to be an over-reaction. But I do think it's fair to call him on it and question what's going on, since the 9/11 hijackers dressed in no such way. It could be something everyone can learn from. And I think he's kidding himself if he can't accept that his "fears" are simply a form of bigotry. Is it not a form of bigotry to "worry" that homosexuals might be especially prone to pedophilia (even though statistics counter that?) If you don't call out bigotry for what it is, it continues.
Originally Posted By dshyates I think the whole point of Williams comments. To bring into focus his own bigotry. To acknowledge it, and to try to bring into perspective its unreasonable basis. If you listen to the entire interview, his comments don't seem off base to me.
Originally Posted By dshyates This situation, seems to me, to be very much like the Shirley Sherrod/USDA knee jerk firing. Where something was taken out of context. Everyone freaked out, and someone got fired before all the facts were known.
Originally Posted By gadzuux I hear ya - but what I get from what Williams actually said is referring to a quick passing thought - not a reasoned determination. You're right that a 'terrorist' would not likely be decked out in traditional garb, and that the knee-jerk reaction of concern isn't a well thought out position. But the context of what Willimas was saying on the O'Rielly show was built around the Times Square bomber, and that guy's published comments that we've only seen the tip of the iceberg, and that further (and more effective) attacks are likely to follow. Williams was agreeing with him. And let's face it - he's probably right. We are indeed likely to experience further terrorist attacks in which innocents are injured and killed. And the perpetrators are likely to be muslim. That's not racist, that's just facing reality. Muslims themselves are the victims of muslim extremeism and terrorism in much greater numbers than any other group. Yet WE'RE understandably primarily concerned about americans. And finally, I've said it before but I'm dissatisfied with the half-hearted efforts among the muslim community itself to police and suppress these barbarous acts. Again and again we see senseless violence perpetrated by muslim extremeists, and a muted and defensive response from whatever passes for muslim spokesmen. If muslims are concerned that their reputation around the globe as a religion of peace is diminished as a result of the repeated examples of senseless brutality, they can certainly step up their efforts from within. I haven't seen much of an effort.
Originally Posted By DlandDug Against my better judgement, I would like to add my two cents to this. First, Juan Williams said nothing about Muslims in "religious garb" or "full Muslim garb." What he said was: "...if I see people who are in Muslim garb..." He then qualified his concern by saying: "...and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims..." His issue isn't over people in religious garb getting on planes, but rather, people who identify themselves (through distinctive garb) as Muslims. He further qualified his comment by mentioning the Times Square bomber's comments, but wrapped up his preface by saying: "But I think there are people who want to somehow remind us all as President Bush did after 9/11, it’s not a war against Islam." Second, Williams was not making a statement about his fear of Muslims. He was making a larger argument, one which has gotten lost in the debate over his opening comments. Here is the gist of his real point, which was stated just moments later in his discussion with Bill O'Reilly of Fox News: O'REILLY: "...liberals feel that [the] United States is somehow guilty in the world, of exploitation and backing the wrong side, and it makes it easier for them to come up with this kind of crazy stuff that, well, you can’t really say the Muslims attacked us on 9/11. WILLIAMS: No, but what Barbara Walters said to you – O’REILLY: Were they Norwegians? I mean, come on. WILLIAMS: Wait a second though, wait, hold on, because if you said Timothy McVeigh, the Atlanta bomber, these people who are protesting against homosexuality at military funerals, very obnoxious, you don’t say first and foremost, we got a problem with Christians. That’s crazy." Williams was taking O'Reilly to task for his comments on The View. He prefaced his conversation with an anecdotal comment about his own irrational fear of Muslims on planes. And for that NPR has fired him. Incidently, Williams has appeared on Fox for years, as an identified NPR on-air personality. Mara Liasson does, too. Many NPR personalities appear on other media outlets, and are not fired for making honest comments that reveal their own weaknesses and inadequacies. Full transcript of Williams' appearance on Fox: <a href="http://www.thinkprogress.org/2010/10/21/npr-fires-juan-williams/" target="_blank">http://www.thinkprogress.org/2...illiams/</a> That is all.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>To bring into focus his own bigotry.<< Okay, but he's specifically saying that he isn't bigoted to feel nervous when he sees someone in Muslim garb on a plane. You can't own up to it and deny it at the same time. As to The View hosts walking out, let's not rewrite what happened. O'Reilly was doing his usual bluster and told Joy Behar to shut up and she might learn something. As usual, O'Reilly is the innocent victim in all this.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper The bigger question: Why did "The View" have O'Reilly on in the first place? Ratings.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Well, the format of The View is not conducive to a calm discussion about most anything. Just too many people talking over each other. But yeah, Bill O'Reilly does what he does. He's got his schtick and if you're going to have him on what comes out of his mouth shouldn't be particularly surprising.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I don't think they objected to him presenting his views (which is what he does), as much as his being so condescending and rude to his hosts. I suppose you could say that that's what he does, too. But Walters seemed very much "You WILL not be rude to my co-hosts without answering to me!"
Originally Posted By dshyates Actually, The Corporation for Public Broadcasting (CPB), the parent company of PBS and NPR, received $420 million in taxpayer funds in 2010 and has requested $608 million for the next funding cycle that begins in 2013.
