Originally Posted By FaMulan Just to refresh everyone on the Administration's approved "sex education" program. It runs along the lines of, "Boys and girls, if you feel like you want to have sex, you really should abstain." NO information on pregnancy and the complications thereof. No detailed information on STD's and what they can do to a person (I remember seeing pictures of people with syphillis and ghonerria (sp)). The Good, the Bad and the Ugly and how to avoid giving into peer pressure (yes, there's lots of peer pressure to engage in sexual activities. Especially sexual activities that aren't really seen as sexual activities) helped me make the decision to not have sex until I met the man I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. Does everyone make that decision? NO. That's why comprehensive education must happen and contraceptive information imparted in case people do make the choice to have sex prior to marriage, if they marry at all. People funded by the government, wagging their disapproving finger at me just encourages me to do the opposite of what they want.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Did you know that the letters in clamato also spell 'calm tao' and 'cat loam'?
Originally Posted By mele I don't think it's a bad thing to promote but I do think it's a waste of millions of taxpayer's dollars.
Originally Posted By mele No jon. Obviously you are vastly more intelligent than we are and understand things that we can't even begin to comprehend. If there's anyone who's showing their inability to grasp a concept, it's you.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>If you don't seem to think there is something wrong with this, that it is not a waste of money, then you are very far out from the mainstream.<< The government spends a lot of money on educational outreach, from everything from dietary choices to child raising and even birth control. It is 100% true that you can't get pregnant without having sex, and it seems to be true that children born to single mothers have more problems than those born to mothers in long-term relationships. Why is it a bad idea to try to reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and the try to limit the spread of STDs?
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>Just to refresh everyone on the Administration's approved "sex education" program.<< This topic concerns grant money available to organizations who want to promote abstinence. There is other grant money available for birth control and sex ed. My wife's company just got a federal NIMH grant for running a safe-sex study that focuses on people who self-identify as promiscuous gays.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>Especially for, like, adults? Is no one getting this part?<< Is it just this topic, or do you think it's silly for the government to have educational programs for adults at all?
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Who's sexual behavior do you think the Federal Government is trying to modify here? Hint hint; its not going to be multi-millionare Kennedys.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Obviously you are vastly more intelligent than we are and understand things that we can't even begin to comprehend." Obviously I am. You somehow think that the government telling 20 somethings to abstain from sex is not ridiculous, then you really do have an incapacity. "If there's anyone who's showing their inability to grasp a concept, it's you." The only concept I'm not grasping here is how people think that a federal program telling adults to not have sex is in any way, shape, or form not a joke on the entire nation. "The government spends a lot of money on educational outreach" So what? This is telling adults to abstain. It doesn't work even with kids. Somehow, you're going to see a poster of some kind showing up on a subway telling people in their 20s to abstain and that is supposed to accomplish anything but cynical laughter? You are simply out of touch with reality. "Is it just this topic, or do you think it's silly for the government to have educational programs for adults at all?" Telling adults to not engage in sexual activity is ridiculous. It is not an educational program, it is a waste of taxpayer dollars. Educational programs designed to actually teach people something they either don't know, or would benefit from knowing are a different matter. This is not something where an adult would benefit. To think that anyone would think someone in their 20s would benefit from this defies belief.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom How much do you think this country is spending on STDs and single parent pregnacys? Billions perhaps? How much do you think this country is spending on cigarett smoking and smoking related illnesses? Maybe a trillion. Seems to me that if you have a set amount of money and your goal is public health. Wouldn't you put your money where you are going to get the most "bang for your buck" so to speak. So why is the Federal Government throwning money at a wasteful cause like trying to modify adults sexual behavior? Now if your concerned about saving lives. How can you justify spending money of useless causes like trying to modify adult sexual behaviors while our nations borders remain unprotected. Sure we have alocated millions for these educational programs to teach adults to be abstient but so far no money has been alocated to build a wall to protect our nation.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I really see this more as an attempt on the Bush Administration to appease the Religious right who helped Bush get into office. Hint, hint... the religious right didn't help the Republicans keep control over the House or Senate during the last election go round. Choose wisely grasshopper.
Originally Posted By jonvn Post 91, and 92. Yes, completely correct. The record is not stuck, there just is disbelief on my part that the government would try to tell a 27 year old adult that they should abstain from sex. And it is compounded that anyone here would think that's workable. No one in the article said it was anything close to reasonable. As one person in the article said "They've stepped over the line of common sense.' Oh, and here's a quote about what these programs actually do: "Abstinence education programs, which have focused on preteens and teens, teach that abstaining from sex is the only effective or acceptable method to prevent pregnancy or disease. They give no instruction on birth control or safe sex. " Disgusting. There is no defense of such behavior. Instilling ignorance into our youth, and also trying to inflict it on adults? Fortunately by the time you are an adult, you've gained enough sense to know that such talk is not in your own best interest and you can ignore it. The tragedy here is that it is the kids who suffer for this nonsense.
Originally Posted By DlandJB Kids suffer because their parents don't have the backbone to speak frankly and caringly to them about their bodies, their rights and their responsibilities. I agree, it isn't the place of the government to teach morality - heaven help us if it ever comes to that. But I don't object to the spirit behind the message, which is concerned about public health, which is an economic issue as much as anything else. There is so much of consequence to expend this kind of energy and outrage on these days. I'm surprised and somewhat amused at the outrage wasted on this particular topic. If people aren't going to listen to the government anyway, why so much vitriol?
Originally Posted By jonvn "Kids suffer because their parents don't have the backbone to speak frankly and caringly to them about their bodies, their rights and their responsibilities." Kids suffer because they are told this stuff, and not the whole story. "I'm surprised and somewhat amused at the outrage wasted on this particular topic" A) Waste of tax dollars. B) Telling people how to conduct their sex lives. C) Not telling children the entire story of what they need to do to protect themselves. D) High teen pregnancy rates E) High rates of STDs (higher in kids who go to abstinence class, btw) So, it's not a non-issue. Why so much vitriol? Because this is the tip of an iceberg whereby it shows an out of touch admin that is playing to ideology rather than reality. It is causing suffering amongst the people of this nation out of religious beliefs that are archaic. It speaks of a nation so afraid of sex that they want even adults to not have it, while violence permeates every society and slice and dice violent shows appear every night on television. You should be upset by this, because it points to so many things wrong in this society.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom << But I don't object to the spirit behind the message,>> I question the spirit behind the message. Do I think its a good message, sure. But I think any Government should be motivating people about their individual Freedoms and Libertys. Not setting up prgrams that attempt to modify adult sexual behavior. <<which is concerned about public health,>> i have already demonstrated that this is not the case. Again if your goal is public health, then aren't you going to spend your money where you are going to have the greatest impact on public health, ie smoking or securing our nations borders. <<I'm surprised and somewhat amused at the outrage wasted on this particular topic.>> If we weren't laughing then maybe we all would be crying. You want to keep in mind that there are those of us who are paying exorbinate amounts in Federal taxes. Certainly this is NOT an effective use of taxpayer money. The Federal Government needs to stay out of the bedrooms of consenting adults. We all want to see this country grow and move on. I'm not sure that the Federal Government treating consenting adults as children is a move in the right direction. Government exists to meet OUR needs. We don't exist to meet Government needs. <<why so much vitriol?>> This should not be going on. There is no one on this board that has the ability to directly vote in or veto legislation of the local, state or Federal level. But there are times when all of us have felt that we are the only sane person in the room. I think jonvn feels that way here at the moment.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<You should be upset by this, because it points to so many things wrong in this society.>> Finally the reason of truth. They say there are three people in this world. People who make things happen. People who watch things happen and people who wonder what happened. I'm certainly not going to shoot down the messenger of bad news.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom When I loook at this from a Social Worker's perspective I am offended. Those social programs were set up for the benefit of underpriveliged children. As a society we made a conscious decision that we did not want to have a "Dicksonian" like country with waifs on ever street. We created those social programs back in the 1930s for a reason. Now someone ( with religious motivation ) is in a possission of power to dictate Federal spending allocated to those social programs. So this individual is modifying just where that Federal funding is going. And believes those funds would be better spent not on helping children but on modifying the sexual behaviors of adults. Shameless
