Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance Anytime two people (atheist and christian) are debating the validity of religion, its going to get sticky because they are both operating on the assumption that they are correct and the other is wrong . And since they are both certain their viewpoint is correct they start making guesses as to where the other is wrong in their thinking, and its hard to not get offended when someone is telling you that you,re wrong.
Originally Posted By andyll <<There are scads of Christians who do not take the Bible literally. It isn't necessary.>> You have to believe the basic tenents. jesus, Incarnation, salvation. <<Many people like myself believe in God but let it go right there. No church, no bible, no anything but just a belief that there is a God and live by the Golden Rule. >> Then you are not a christian. Closer to a Deist. It's funny... we have two believers that are non-christian takening CC to task when she was mainly directing her comments at christians. <<WHOSE general drill?>> We've seen it in action.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>You have to believe the basic tenents. jesus, Incarnation, salvation.<< Yet again, being told what I "have to" believe. Quit it!
Originally Posted By utahjosh If we start trying to define "Christian" we are in trouble. Lots of differing definitions.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>they are both operating on the assumption that they are correct and the other is wrong<< Not in my case. I know that you could be right and I could be wrong. I'm not out to convince you one way or the other. There are some Christians who are rock-solid in their beliefs and never have a moment of doubt. I wish that were me, but it's not. So I am never offended when people question faith or religion, unless it sets out to be kind of condescending right at the outset (as in video 1). There are some basic Christian values that align well with living a charitable, peaceful, good life. Regardless of whether or not there is a God or heaven, there is value IMHO for living one's life as best they can in a charitable, peaceful, service-to-community sort of way. If there's no "reward" at the end of the line for that, it doesn't make me want to alter course away from striving to be that way. Because I think doing those things simply for some eternal payoff misses the entire point.
Originally Posted By andyll >>>>You have to believe the basic tenents. jesus, Incarnation, salvation.<<<< Yet again, being told what I "have to" believe. Quit it! Sorry... if you do not believe in the basic tenets of christianality you are not a christian. You can call yourself whatever you want but don't expect to be taken serious if you say... "I don't believe in Jesus but I am a christian."
Originally Posted By andyll <<If we start trying to define "Christian" we are in trouble. Lots of differing definitions. >> Sorry... you have to believe in the most basic tenets of Christianity. Which is Jesus and salvation through Jesus.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I've beat this drum before, but it hasn't done a lot of good. But what the heck, I had the extra 2ยข anyway.<< And here's my haypennies worth, that I've already preached ad nauseam: I get that there are plenty of Christians who don't take the Bible literally, who aren't stupid, who have thought critically about their beliefs and come to a different conclusion than I have. Get it. Got it. No problem with it. I also think that the new atheists, like Richard Dawkins, play a valuable role. There are millions of Christians in this country who do take the Bible literally, who have not thought critically about their beliefs, and who cause real harm to real people through their ignorance (Prop 8). If a video is created or a book released that criticizes, even scathingly, these people and their beliefs, why do all Christians suddenly get all heartbroken over it? If you see what they write and no it doesn't apply to you, then what's the issue? Every time this argument comes up, that's what I don't get. There are MILLIONS who believe dangerous crap that causes harm. You need Martin and Malcolm; both had their role to play. Why not take a different approach than atheists to try and influence a few of those millions in your own little corner instead of yelling at the atheists that they're lumping and being unfair and all that jazz?
Originally Posted By ecdc >>If we start trying to define "Christian" we are in trouble. Lots of differing definitions.<< That's the other part of this that always cracks me up. Everyone posits their definition of a Christian as if it's some objective analysis of Christianity. Instead, it's like if I play a game, then invent my own rules, and when I'm the only one who plays by those rules, I declare myself the winner. Not at all convenient....
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance The danderous christianss are wha fuel my Desire to spread the atheist word. if everyonne was like you K2 the. their really would be no point. but if i were to convince you then there would be one more to help spread the word to the dangerous christians.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<Why not take a different approach than atheists to try and influence a few of those millions in your own little corner instead of yelling at the atheists that they're lumping and being unfair and all that jazz?>> It actually reminds me a little of our discussions in the other threads about how rational conservatives aren't standing up to the wackos and calling them out for their crazy talk. Instead, they get all defensive and close ranks. I know that most of the more rationale Christians on these boards do call other "crazy Christians" out for their nuttiness, but that doesn't seem to be a universal thing.
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance And like Andyll, i get confused when a person picks and chooses their christian beliefs. I just dont understand what basis anyone would have for believing their own version of events. I genuinely would like to question someone like that, but i get yelled at fhat i am lumping everyone together.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox I'm still trying to understand the "Jesus wants you to be rich" crowd, who also tend to vote Republican and rail against the "evil Socialist Democrats." Jesus was the very definition of a Socialist, in both word and deed. So why do these people hate the notion of socialism so much, when it's at the very core of Jesus' teachings? I guess these so-called "Christians" have unearthed a previously unknown section of the New Testament: the Book of Revenues.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Speaking for only myself, I never called myself a Christian. I just said I believe in God. There's nothing else I need to justify to anyone.
Originally Posted By andyll <<Speaking for only myself, I never called myself a Christian. I just said I believe in God. There's nothing else I need to justify to anyone.>> Then why did you attack/chide CC in post 57 when she made a statement about christians and the bible?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>but if i were to convince you then there would be one more to help spread the word to the dangerous christians<< Of course, I could also remain Christian and speak out against people who use Christianity to do harm to others (such as Prop 8 and other such things). I don't know how, were I to become atheist, I would behave any differently.
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance Are you just grumpy SPP? Is that it? Do i tend to bother and annoy you on average or something? cause im seriously not tryiing to offend you.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan And if I did not believe in God at some point, I don't see myself expending a whole lot of effort in trying to convince anyone who does have faith that they are all wrong. I know that some atheists believe that religion in and of itself is pretty much 100% a negative influence and we'd be better off without any of it. But I just don't see myself as rushing to try to convert anyone.
