Originally Posted By Mr X Things won't suddenly change, Dar. Terrorism is not going away anytime soon. Treating them according to international standards, though, WILL help ensure that the rest of the planet doesn't hate our guts in the process. You seem to be missing that part. Us acting like thugs just pisses of the rest of the world, and does NOTHING to further the cause of capturing and prosecuting terrorists (unless you believe what the White House tells you these days...do you?). By the way, Dar, there are no guarantees in life. It's entirely possible that more terrorists will rise up and do more harm. Nothing we do can prevent that. We can diminish their abilities, sure. But someday, one of them will get a lucky break and do more harm. It's pretty much inevitable. And your torture plan won't prevent that, either. You do realize that, don't you? I'm thinking that post 119 is very telling...I think that you truly believe that if we "go for the jugular" as it were and torture and kill them as fast as possible, then it means things will suddenly change. That's not factual, if you look back upon world history (and even if not, Please do read up on the Geneva Conventions is you intend to cite them as part of your argument...you only sound foolish by bringing them up as some sort of "support" for your agenda of punishment based torture).
Originally Posted By Mr X ***None of you can guarantee*** ***You cannot guarantee that.*** Nor can you guarantee that torturing terrorists (or others) will make anything better. In fact, historically it has always been quite the opposite. There are no guarantees, Dar. If you are looking for some, you're going to be disappointed.
Originally Posted By Mr X But I do appreciate your sentiment. We'd ALL like to feel as though some action or another would guarantee that 9/11 would never happen again. I sure as hell hope so! But, I don't see any way, short of international COOPERATION (something that torture precludes, pretty much), in which we can even SOMEWHAT guarantee that such a thing would be far less likely in future. I do understand your point. I disagree with the methods though, NOT because I don't want those guys to suffer Dar (I do), but moreso because you and the White House seem to be missing the concept that such actions DO NOT HELP. And diminish our status on the world stage to boot. In other words, you are giving the terrorists exactly what they want with this line of reasoning. They WANT us to look like thugs on the world stage. They WANT the world to hate us (thanks to Bush, that's rather a non-issue these days). Do YOU want to accommodate them by proving that we are thugs just like they are?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>In other words, you are giving the terrorists exactly what they want with this line of reasoning. They WANT us to look like thugs on the world stage. They WANT the world to hate us<< Exactly, and that's really the main point. We treat them humanely (that doesn't mean taking them out for a nice dinner at the Four Seasons or something) and that actually works AGAINST the portrait they try and paint of us as an evil super power intent on destroying Islam. We hold ourselves to a higher standard. That way, we can later say "Look, in SPITE of the fact that these maniacs wanted to kill innocents, in SPITE of the fact that they cared not one bit about destroying innocent life, we showed great restraint and were more than fair in how we treated them." It won't guarantee that there won't be any more wild-eyed lunatics wanting to harm us. But it will make it that much harder for them to gather support.
Originally Posted By DAR <<It won't guarantee that there won't be any more wild-eyed lunatics wanting to harm us. But it will make it that much harder for them to gather support.>> And after that join Islam and approve the slaughter of Israel.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Not that there are radical Islamists that want to wipe out Israel. But that torturing them would make them somehow not want to do that any more. In fact, by torturing them, we are creating more radicals - turning Muslims who might have just disliked us into radicals willing to kill us. Completely counterproductive.
Originally Posted By DAR <<In fact, by torturing them, we are creating more radicals - turning Muslims who might have just disliked us into radicals willing to kill us. Completely counterproductive.>> Fine instead of torture we kill as many as we can. There that turned me against torture.
Originally Posted By woody >>In fact, by torturing them, we are creating more radicals - turning Muslims who might have just disliked us into radicals willing to kill us. Completely counterproductive.<< How do torturing one, we are creating more radicals? One for one, okay? If we have started, we are already presuming their danger to society. How is torturing them worse than what they already have done, or presumed to do. Extreme interrogation is based on the assumption that they have information on a activity that needs to be thwarted. It's a risk I'm willing to take.
Originally Posted By grannyanne no no i now learned so much from that last i was here those gays i love them just the sam now and i know that obama will be our president for the better i love with all my hart my gay family he is human and our god loves him so much more than last time please forgive me from those bad times i came here and hurt eveyone of you and im sorry god bless this place and all of you
Originally Posted By grannyanne dar i have always known you sice you came to a place like this one and you are the one to lead us in this time of pain god bless to you and you keep callin me toads i am not green or small but i have those warts on my figers. and god bless all who come around here
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <How do torturing one, we are creating more radicals? One for one, okay?> Because if we are known for torturing, it plays into the hands of those who would paint us as the bad guys. If we're known for NOT torturing, for rising above the level of those who would hurt us, it makes it harder to recruit further terrorists. <Fine instead of torture we kill as many as we can. There that turned me against torture.> Yeah, kill the people we later find out didn't do anything (like the 30 some we've released) - that'll help our reputation.
Originally Posted By DAR Then I will humbly applaud you and others in regards to this topic. Because you're able find these people a lot more trustworthy than I am.
Originally Posted By mele <<Then I will humbly applaud you and others in regards to this topic. Because you're able find these people a lot more trustworthy than I am.>> Thank you, DAR, for leading us during this time of pain.
Originally Posted By Mr X Dar, are you saying "kill em all, and let God sort em out"? It certainly sounds like that.
Originally Posted By DAR So what do we do then. Let them go through trials that every liberal lawyer and member of the ACLU is going to talk about how unfair we were to these people. Even though the majority of them are known killers. That's not right and you all known
