Originally Posted By jonvn "Why do all of these WE threads seem to devolve into discussions about semantics?" Because some people tend to obfuscate and throw the discussion off track, and others don't notice it, and follow along, instead of returning to the point.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Because some people tend to obfuscate and throw the discussion off track, and others don't notice it, and follow along, instead of returning to the point.> Or they attack the poster, rather than the post.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Do you think we're being welcomed with "sweets and flowers" as some claimed we would be?*** SD, I thought it was "guns and shoes". Did I read the wrong article again?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Wait. That's not quite right. Make it: "I was talking in present tense about what I believe happened in the past, but I can understand why one could read it all as present tense."> Fine, that's all I was looking for. There was no goalpost moving, then, as we were on different pages.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Or they attack the poster, rather than the post." Now you're projecting again.
Originally Posted By DAR The troops are pretty skeptical that this plan is going to get them home soon. <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061206/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_skeptical_troops" target="_blank">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200 61206/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_skeptical_troops</a> So I'll ask if some think they're not leaving until 2012, then what good is this panel for?
Originally Posted By DAR Hit submit too soon. Did anyone ask any of the military what the best possible solution was? Probably not, which is why this is the usual Monday Morning Quarterbacking that's been occuring on both sides since this started.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Well, Bush always SAYS he listens to his generals. So presumably, yes, someone's asked the military what they think. That may or may not be true, but the fact is the military has been placed in an impossible position - asked to "win" something that long ago ceased to be winnable militarily. Having made the monumentally unwise decision (IMO) to invade and occupy Iraq, without realizing what the full consequences of that would be after Saddam was gone, Bush is only belatedly (let's hope) coming to realize that this must be a political solution. The military did a great job at doing what they're trained to do - defeat another country's army - but unsurprisingly they haven't been so able to do what they haven't been trained to do.
Originally Posted By DAR <<Well, Bush always SAYS he listens to his generals. >> I'm not talking about the Generals, I mean those in the thick of it. That's whose input is needed.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 You mean enlisted men? It's a nice idea on one level, but contrary to the way the military works to think they'll offer direction.
Originally Posted By DAR Yes I mean enlisted men, their the one's in the crap. They better than any of us.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo That article presents a bleak picture with regard to the mindset of our troops. But it is pretty much the same type of sentiments that I hear via email from my friends and family in the region; “We are going to be in this hell-hole for 20 more yearsâ€; “These people hate us, so why should we give a *crap* about them?â€; etc… If anything, I’m hearing more and more racist comments from our enlisted troops returning from the region. That alone paints a vivid picture of the situation on the ground. Just a lot of bitterness and resentment all around. BTW, they almost never ask enlisted about their advice on strategic operations; they do however seek council from the NCOs on local tactical or operations issues.
Originally Posted By DAR <<That article presents a bleak picture with regard to the mindset of our troops. But it is pretty much the same type of sentiments that I hear via email from my friends and family in the region; “We are going to be in this hell-hole for 20 more yearsâ€; “These people hate us, so why should we give a *crap* about them?â€; etc… If anything, I’m hearing more and more racist comments from our enlisted troops returning from the region. That alone paints a vivid picture of the situation on the ground. Just a lot of bitterness and resentment all around. >> If they don't want our help now and didn't want it then, then any country in that region should never ask for our help again.
Originally Posted By DAR Again read: If they don't want our help now and DIDN'T WANT IT THEN, then any country in that region should never ask for our help again.
