Originally Posted By DlandDug >>DCA was a failure, full stop, so there's nothing to discuss. LOL<< Either this means you agree with me, or you don't and don't want to discuss it. Works for me. And you?
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>So it's "valid," yet "silly spin?" Geez - passive-aggressive much?<< Nothing passive aggressive at all. In fact, nothing personal intended. It's perfectly valid to have differing opinions, and it's perfectly valid to disagree with them. And even identify them as silly spin. As for the black/white issue... well, when making the call on success or failure, it's one or the other. As others have noted, I have no problem identifying things I like about DCA, but ultimately all available facts point to failure. A failure that is being addressed as we speak. P.S. The argument that ANY failure requires a shut down strikes me as kind of... black and white. Many a failure has been renovated/improved/changed/turned around. So... there you are.
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance "Constance did you know that the new Disney Stores were designed by the same team that designed the Apple Stores?" I didn't know that. I feel like everyone thinks Steve is the cool guy on the block and would do anything he said.
Originally Posted By TP2000 Bob Paris<<" Sir........I would drink your bath water." Thank you. And just when I was feeling over the hill. ;-) >>"Oh and since I would probably be banned if I typed publicly what I thought of him, I am telepathically sending you my thoughts of Jon Nadelberg." I received your message, and I laughed hysterically. Cheers to you! I kind of wish Jon was still around. Almost. Before he left here shortly after the Billion dollar makeover was announced in October '07, he kept repeating a patently absurd line in his attempt to save face. It was "They do this to all their parks". I can only imagine what he must think here in 2010 of the types of statements senior execs are now openly making about DCA. "They do this to all their parks". HA!
Originally Posted By Dabob2 >>So it's "valid," yet "silly spin?" Geez - passive-aggressive much?<< <Nothing passive aggressive at all. In fact, nothing personal intended. It's perfectly valid to have differing opinions, and it's perfectly valid to disagree with them. And even identify them as silly spin.> But "spin" indicates an ulterior motive behind the "spinner," which is why I objected. It's an attempt to dismiss the opinion as motivated by something other than honesty (which is what a "spinner" does). And the "silly" part didn't help. <As for the black/white issue... well, when making the call on success or failure, it's one or the other.> Why? You've never heard of terms like "qualified success," "partial success," "artistic success but commercial flop" (or vice versa), etc. etc. etc.? There's no need to have things so black and white. It's simplistic. Life almost never works that way. <As others have noted, I have no problem identifying things I like about DCA, but ultimately all available facts point to failure. A failure that is being addressed as we speak.> No, the facts point to a mixed bag, with the weaker points being addressed. (Even that's arguable, as many people are happy to see the money pouring in, but question why most of the additions are toon/character based.) <P.S. The argument that ANY failure requires a shut down strikes me as kind of... black and white. > That's why I pointed out that it wasn't my argument. But if you're going to go strict black/white, then a failure closes. But I'm not going black/white. It's a mixed bag, and they're addressing the weaker aspects of it.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Excellent Points Bob!> Thanks, Ohana, but actually it's Dave. (Dabob is a quasi-acronym.)
Originally Posted By Moon Waffle Add me to the camp that saw a definite "shift" in my SoCal itinerary post-DCA. For years and years it was always: 2 days at Disneyland, 1 day at Knotts, 1 at Universal, 1 at Magic Mountain. Post DCA it's pretty much been: 5 days at DLR. Maybe squeeze in a sixth day at Knott's just to mix things up a big, but that doesn't happen too often. I'm not saying we spend all of that extra DLR time in DCA, but we certainly can stay 5 days and not feel like we've had "too much Disney". If they were trying to get tourists to stay longer by creating the DLR, in my family's experience, they succeeded.
Originally Posted By fkurucz If DCA were unfixable, I would agree that it was a failure. In its original form it had some terrible shortcomings, which they began to address and still are. DCA will never be Disneyland, but I think that once the current enhancements are completed it will be a pretty decent themepark.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I think it'll be more than just decent, especially compared to the competition on the west coast. No, it won't match DL, but even now I feel like it does some things better than DL does.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Either this means you agree with me, or you don't and don't want to discuss it. << I was chuckling at the notion that DCA was a failure and it's as simple as that. If it were that simple, they'd have closed the doors long ago and turned it into a parking lot again. If a student tries for an A in chemistry, but winds up only earning a C, that is not failure. An F is failure. Only if you define success as "achieving all that you aim and hope for" and failure as "falling sort of achieving all that you aim and hope for" can success and failure ever be a simple matter. So, I disagree with the statement that "DCA was a failure. It's as simple as that." If it were such an easy, open and shut case, would people still be debating it a decade later?
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Excellent analogy Kar2oonMan. DCA is a failure for all the delusional people who keep asserting that is. How Disney determines its performance is what really matters. From Iger's comments one can easily conclude that Disney was unhappy with the outcome (no surprise there), but beyond that there isn't much left to surmise that hasn't already been debated here 5,000 times since 2001.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA One of the biggest missteps with DCA was/is the monorail. I'm sure there will be immediate posts suggesting that it's cost-prohibitive (one million dollars per mile is that last outrageous number I've heard), and logistically impossible. That said, in my own personal Fantasyland, they should have taken the time to move the track so that it runs the perimeter of the park (or the North edge), so that it doesn't cut into the Park in the awkward way that it does now. It seems like when you ride through DCA on the Monorail, it shows off the absolute worst aspects of the Park. And...I think there should have been a monorail stop at DCA. Yes, so you could get off the monorail and go to the Park. Yeah, I know, I know...it's crazy. So, crazy...it just might've worked.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I agree with you about the view from the Monorail. Most of the trip through DCA is literally across gravel rooftops. I kind of wish they'd just get rid of the Monorail altogether at DLR. It just seems like it only serves as showpiece now. It's certainly not practical as transportation nor is it futuristic.
Originally Posted By mickeymorris1234 Thats why they changed the cars. Before they were using the cars that WDW uses as a main source of transportation. The Disneyland Monorail is designed for show. Though I must say it comes in handy when the park is crowded, you get dropped off in the heart of the park. I think the monorail would be used a lot more if there was a stop inside DCA or inside TGCH.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "one million dollars per mile is that last outrageous number I've heard" I remember hearing that figure in the 70's (!) It must be much more now. Or they could build a line into LA for no more than it cost to build Pooh, or run it to Amtrak or Anaheim Stadium for relative peanuts.
Originally Posted By mickeymorris1234 The one million dollars per mile is what is quoted on History Channel during their WDW two hour special. However remember that the WDW monorail system is a dual track system so it will cost more. I would guess that Disneyland would be 300,000 - 400,000 per mile but I'm just guessing.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "Before they were using the cars that WDW uses as a main source of transportation." No. DL's is much smaller gauge. The cars appeared similar before DL got new ones, but the whole scale is much smaller.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Though I must say it comes in handy when the park is crowded, you get dropped off in the heart of the park." Well sort of. The heart would be right in front of the Castle, but I get what your saying. Still, you only have one stop from which to board (DTD), so if you are staying at Paradise Pier Hotel or anywhere along the eastern perimeter of the park, you're out of luck. Also, don't you have to have a DLR hotel room key to board in Tomorrowland on busy days?
Originally Posted By mickeymorris1234 Nope, I got on and off with out a problem. It might be in the morning.
