Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<I thought Jindal's response was a disaster; partly for the content, but mostly for the tone. Obama had just spent over an hour speaking to us as though we were adults. Jindal's tone was like he was Mr. Rogers speaking to a group of less-than-gifted 5 year olds. "We can do ANYTHING!!!" The man clearly has political ambitions beyond Louisiana, but he'll have to do better than that in the future.>> I reluctantly disagree with you. I'd remind LP WE readers that we are, as a group, a more educated, sophisticated, and discerning audience than is the group of average Americans. Sadly, while I think the "Mr. Rogers/condescending" comparison is spot on, I don't think most Americans will have come away with that. I think Jindal's pitch will have worked on them. Who was it who said that "You'll never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people"? If it wasn't Hannity or Limbaugh, it should have been. And now it can be Jindal. As clumsy as his delivery was, and as obviously [to us] bogus as his content was, I'm guessing that he won over a number of Americans who weren't smart enough to realize they were being talked down to.
Originally Posted By markymouse "having a bunch a geologists look at a volcano are not essential to everyday Americans." Why don't I let this go? I don't know. There are two arguments against this reasoning. First - scientific progress. Anytime we invest money into better science and better scientists, that is a good idea. Sputnik. Space race. All that. But there are also practical benefits to research. We are able to evacuate 99% of the people to safety before a hurricane makes land fall because of "having a bunch of meteorologists look at clouds". I'm willing to wager the first several decades of studying tropical storms fell short of producing usable information. But we continued to build and build on what we knew, and now hurricane deaths are the exception. Read up on the casualty rates during 19th century and early 20th century hurricanes. Then look at how many people died from hurricanes in 2008. Then tell me you don't want your tax dollars wasted on scientific research. "Having a bunch of geologists look at a volcano" means a lot to millions of "everyday Americans" who happen to live in Alaska, Washington, Oregon, California or Hawaii. Improving our ability to understand volcanoes' behavior and predict their eruptions could mean the difference between losing thousands of lives and losing millions of lives if a major eruption occurred near a large population center like Seattle or Portland. For volcano, substitute hurricane, earthquake, tornado, blizzard, nuclear accident, toxic spill, wildfire or terrorist attack, and I'd wager 99% of those "everyday Americans" are safer because of the knowledge brought about by those egg heads wasting your tax dollars. And as for high speed rail to Las Vegas, the fastest growing big city in America, with a huge tourist industry, just a few hundred miles from America's second largest city, is "off the grid" of passenger rail service. Some public officials think that should be corrected. Others mock it because it's Las Vegas and Los Angeles, neither of which is part of "real" America. Not hard for me to see which side to root for.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Others mock it because it's Las Vegas and Los Angeles, neither of which is part of "real" America.<< Exactly. Anything connected with sinful Las Vegas and nutty L.A. is a free shot by politicians looking for an easy applause line. It's an appeal to ignorance, and it's why the GOP's support nationally has been dwindling. And in the years ahead, this stale approach won't get any fresher. I foolishly thought the GOP might actually reflect and redefine itself. Instead, it seems to be shifting even further right, away from where most of America is at. Those in the GOP that don't scoff at scientific advances and have some set of values beyond toting the tired, hokey rhetoric better start grabbing the reigns before the party is as relevant as the Whigs.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<I'd remind LP WE readers that we are, as a group, a more educated, sophisticated, and discerning audience than is the group of average Americans. Sadly, while I think the "Mr. Rogers/condescending" comparison is spot on, I don't think most Americans will have come away with that. I think Jindal's pitch will have worked on them.>> Actually Inspector, I have to disagree with that as well. I just watched the speeech on youtube and the responses were brutal (and there were over 4,000 of them ). One poster said the speech had everything except the little white bouncey ball at the bottom of the screen to follow the words lol. The consensus seems to be he sucked . Having just watched it, it did come off phony, even if he meant every word of it, the tone was horrible. So bad, people seem to be dismissing what he was saying in a lot of it, which most of it was the standard republican line of less government spending....until YOUR state needs it that is .
Originally Posted By Mr X ***DAR, if the Yellowstone super cauldera blows your screwed.*** If it blows, we're ALL screwed (even little old me sitting here in Tokyo). That would be an Earthshattering event, literally. EVERYONE would feel the pain.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Sadly, while I think the "Mr. Rogers/condescending" comparison is spot on, I don't think most Americans will have come away with that. I think Jindal's pitch will have worked on them.> I hear where you're coming from, Inspector, but I don't think it will have worked on "most" Americans. (And WD points out how negative the comments on YouTube were - they can't have all come from liberals). Will it work on a good number of Americans? Sure. Look how many people loved Palin. But, happily, it wasn't a majority. The zeitgeist of the country just isn't where it was. Most moderates have soured on the GOP, at least temporarily, who seem out of step right now, and too beholden to the southern and religious right base. That won't last forever, but that seems to be the basic vibe in the country now. If it wasn't, you wouldn't see the high numbers we see now for Obama and low numbers for the GOP leadership. BTW, I don't think this dooms Jindal forever. Sets him back, sure. But the first time most Americans ever saw Bill Clinton give a speech was the '88 Dem. Convention, and it was almost as widely panned as Jindal's performance. Clinton was supposed to be this young up-and-comer, but his speech was rambling, unfocused, and seemed to go on for 19 hours. In his first big moment in the national spotlight, he blew it. Yet, 4 years later, he was elected President. So Jindal fans can take that to heart; others dismiss him out of hand at their peril. Still, on Tuesday night... my favorite comment was the woman who said that watching Obama and then watching Jindal was like seeing the Rolling Stones open for Air Supply. <Who was it who said that "You'll never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people"?> H.L. Mencken.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>BTW, I don't think this dooms Jindal forever.<< I don't either. He needs to lay low for awhile, let the public memory fade (something Sarah Palin doesn't seem able or willing to do), and then never, ever make any speech that sounds so condescending again. What won't help him is listening to the likes of Lumpball and Hannity going on and on about how great he was. Ignore their fawning and he can learn from this experience and be better for it.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>watching Obama and then watching Jindal was like seeing the Rolling Stones open for Air Supply<< LOL!
Originally Posted By DAR <<(something Sarah Palin doesn't seem able or willing to do), >> Really? I haven't seen around much but then again maybe I'm not looking. <<watching Obama and then watching Jindal was like seeing the Rolling Stones open for Air Supply>> Sure you get a rocking show with the Stones but Air Supply can be very soothing. In my digital music world there's room for both. But there are some eerie parallels: Obama/Stoneslays to large crowds, people go nuts. Jindal/Air Supply: Play to really small venues or does informercials in weirdly lit places like a Mansion. Or in a living room with soft lighting and fireplace in the background.
Originally Posted By DAR Getting back to the Volcano Montoring people. So when the money runs out and eventually it will, are we supposed to say, well here you go another 200 million. Or will someone in the government have the sense to see if this is really working.
Originally Posted By Sara Tonin Sort of a "screw 'em"...maybe they just shouldn't live in Kansa if hurricane's are a problem for them.
Originally Posted By DAR But if you're giving additional money to those institutions, you're taking away from our schools, military and roads, the things that really matter to this country. Oh and how hard is to be a weather person. If you live in a warm climate you tell people it's going to be warm with maybe some rain. If you live up here you say either it's going to be cold or it's going to snow and you can be wrong most of the time.
Originally Posted By DAR <<Sort of a "screw 'em"...maybe they just shouldn't live in Kansa if hurricane's are a problem for them.>> I didn't know the Gulf of Mexico was bordering Kansas already.
Originally Posted By avro_imagineer << Actually Inspector, I have to disagree with that as well. I just watched the speeech on youtube and the responses were brutal (and there were over 4,000 of them ). One poster said the speech had everything except the little white bouncey ball at the bottom of the screen to follow the words lol.>> As great as youtube is, I've seen innocent videos (along the lines of look at this grandma) with very nasty posts about how these videos waste youtube and how those people should get a life. Comments on youtube makes wikipedia seem very credible. Politicians, Lobbyists, Executives, Major Stockholders are living the American dream. Unfortunately to do that "Average America" may have to pick up the tab. Regardless of political affiliation the truth is they will accept gifts, they will all have their pet projects. It's just how much the gift vs. actual down to goodness good policy making is done. Inspector -> maybe you should move to Canada, land of big brother. Where even buying a beer involves purchasing it from the Beer Store and not Meijers. The other thing however in regards to "Popular Opinion" is that it's not always based on truths (or anything close to). I have a saying "Reality is always a decade behind Perception". as a certain LPer will point out once those jobs are gone, they're gone. Now to a certain extent yes they are. But that doesn't mean the collective "we" can't have a grassroots movement to perhaps start anew. I can't help put think of older retailers such as "Turnstyle" that have come and gone. I can't help but think how long it's been since someone listened to a "Crosby". Free Enterprise is fine, but when grossly profitable becomes the only goal (and to increase tenfold profitability this quarter) instead of long term sustainability and intervention. Well maybe those that brought the failure need to be replaced. Can't help but think of those 60's hippies right now..
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan From the Boston Herald: >>Jindal’s comments provoked an eruption of their own. Alaska politicians, liberal bloggers and some scientists began pointing out how useful it is to let people know when a volcano in their neighborhood is about to explode. "Volcano monitoring is a matter of life and death in Alaska," Sen. Mark Begich, D-Alaska, said in an open letter to Jindal. Sen. Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska, quickly agreed, noting in a press statement how "absolutely appropriate" it is to spend money on volcano monitoring. However, said Murkowski, Jindal raised "a legitimate question about funding volcano monitoring in legislation that’s supposed to create jobs for unemployed Americans." Jindal appears to have exaggerated by tenfold the $140 million he said was destined for the nation’s volcano observatories. Nearly all of that amount - included in the stimulus bill for funding U.S. Geological Survey projects - will go to other USGS functions nationwide, such as repairing facilities and mapping, said John Eichelberger, who heads the agency’s Volcano Hazards Program in Reston, Va. Only about $14 million will be spent on "monitoring volcanoes," mostly in Alaska, he said. The USGS also staffs volcano observatories in Hawaii and the Pacific Northwest, but most of the nation’s active volcanoes - and most of the yearly eruptions - occur in Alaska, said Eichelberger, who once worked at the Alaska Volcano Observatory while a professor at the University of Alaska Fairbanks. "It was a strange thing for (Jindal) to pick up on," he said. "This is really very important work. We can see these eruptions coming, so it saves lives to be able to warn people."<<
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Getting back to the Volcano Montoring people. So when the money runs out and eventually it will, are we supposed to say, well here you go another 200 million. Or will someone in the government have the sense to see if this is really working.<< Volcano monitoring not working: "No, you fool, the volcano is over THERE!"
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Why do I get the impression that conservatives dislike science? At least if it comes on the government's dime. Funny thing is most of them seem to have no problem funding the development of bombs and other arms that maim, kill, and destroy people.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 not at all -I think it is solid work -- but so are a whole lot of other programs - scientific and otherwise -- the point being missed here is that the damn stimulus should spend every last red cent helping the damn economy recover. We are putting it through because we are in a crisis -- someof these things can freakin' wait until we see if 50% of the country will be unemployed by year end. Just because the Dems put in in the plan doesn;t make it gold either. it's a matter of priorities - but hey ,and chance to bash the GOP - go ahead...it's expected any more
