Originally Posted By mawnck No deal. https://twitter.com/#!/LisaDCNN/status/95194090014121984 I'm beginning to think that there must literally be no such thing as a deal that will pass both houses. Too many lines drawn in the sand on both sides. Something will need to happen to erase some of those lines. Guess we'll see what that something is tomorrow. Good luck to all. I'm shutting this infernal box of bad news off and going outside. May stop by an ATM and make the maximum withdrawal while I'm at it. Can't hurt.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA I listened and watched President Obama's comments tonight about the debt ceiling issue. I listened and watched John Boehner's comments tonight about the debt ceiling issue. President Obama's comments and plan makes more sense to me. I wrote my Congressman and told him so.
Originally Posted By andyll All you have to do is determine how truthful each one is. Obama's (reid's) cuts are not a lot of true cuts. However the debt ceiling is not where you should be debating cuts... that's for the budget debate. Boehner's plan just moves the debate into the election year so they can make political hay of it then. Boehner also claims Reid's plan gives Obama a 'blank check' That's an absolute lie. No spending will happen unless it's passed by Boehner's Republican controlled house.
Originally Posted By mawnck S&P says GOP plan won't save the US's AAA rating: <a href="http://www.businessinsider.com/sp-favors-the-reid-plan-2011-7" target="_blank">http://www.businessinsider.com...n-2011-7</a> Larry Kudlow eviscerates (I've always wanted to use that word) Eric Cantor for being a partisan hack: <a href="http://www.businessinsider.com/eric-cantor-larry-kudlow-debt-ceiling-2011-7" target="_blank">http://www.businessinsider.com...g-2011-7</a>
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> Boehner also claims Reid's plan gives Obama a 'blank check' That's an absolute lie. << It is a lie - and a stupid and obvious one, and one that I heard him repeat today. What's even worse is that it shows that Boehner cannot negotiate in good faith. He's spent weeks negotiating with the president, only to come out on television and completely misrepresent the president's clearly stated position. This demeans and disrespects the president AND the american people. Boehner lacks the integrity, honor and decency to represent anybody - with the possible exception of republicans who share his deficiencies.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Boehner lacks the integrity, honor and decency to represent anybody - with the possible exception of republicans who share his deficiencies.<< Some of you have probably heard of Michael Savage, who is best known for claiming that liberalism is a mental disease. Yet, in watching this fiasco unfold, it is the GOP that comes across as mentally unhinged, reminding me of the proverbial mental patient who takes himself hostage at gunpoint.
Originally Posted By gadzuux What we've been seeing is Boehner backing away from not one or two, but about four separate proposals - all at the last minute. I believe the reasons for this are two-fold - Boehner cannot control his house, therefore is unable to agree to any deal at all, and secondly - his "tactic" is to continually pile on impossible demands to avoid actually having to convince his own members to approve something. Now it's the "Balanced Budget Amendment". Boehner knows this amendment cannot possibly pass - let alone within a week. He doesn't even want one. This gambit first came up during the Reagan administration, when deficit spending was soaring to unprecedented heights. But then the GOP seemingly decided that they were comfortable with deficits. This attitude prevailed - most famously with Cheney bluntly stating that "deficits don't matter" - until the moment democrat Obama stepped into office. Now suddenly it's a prerequisite to a debt ceiling deal. This is out of nowhere and just got inserted into the debate over the past week. And that wasn't all - Boehner's latest "plan" also requires two votes, now and then again in March or April - defying the president's one only caveat, and a sensible one at that. By upping the ante and including this impossible amendment to the constitution as a prerequisite to a debt ceiling deal, and the two votes that Boehner himself said he didn't want JUST LAST FRIDAY, the republicans tip their hand that they have no interest or intention of increasing the debt ceiling. Their one and only interest is in undermining the president. And if that means destroying the american economy in the process, then so be it. They may yet get their wish.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>What's even worse is that it shows that Boehner cannot negotiate in good faith<< Not convinced that this is true. I'm certainly not a fan of the guy, and wish he wouldn't make stuff up in his public pronouncements, but I also can appreciate the gravity of his situation. What's he supposed to do? Too many kooks spoil the broth. <a href="http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jul/26/house-gop-revolts-against-boehner-debt-plan/" target="_blank">http://www.washingtontimes.com...bt-plan/</a>
Originally Posted By andyll <<What's he supposed to do? >> When the other side gives you tend to accept it. Obama (reid) is giving up a decent about of cuts with no revenue increases to get the deal done. Boehner ( and the republican's ) have given up.... nothing. Boehner should take this deal, save the USAs credit rating... and move the spending/revenue debate to the FY2012 budget process where it belongs. Anything else is pure politics at the expense of the country. If our credit rating gets downgraded it will add trillions to the deficit.
Originally Posted By hopemax Here's what I'm wondering...I've always thought when push came to shove, the business interests would apply the final pressure to get the deal done. They have to know what would happen if the US credit is downgraded. But so far that hasn't happened. So is there something else going on? My DH said, well, all the gajillionares have shorted US positions. Or is the corporate influence not as big as we've all assumed (even by the traditional political power bases). That they let this Tea Party thing get a little to far out in front, and now they can't wrangle them in?
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Boehner should take this deal<< You miss my point, and didn't click on my link. It's not up to Boehner. >>That they let this Tea Party thing get a little to far out in front, and now they can't wrangle them in?<< This. They've created a monn-stah.
Originally Posted By andyll <<You miss my point, and didn't click on my link. It's not up to Boehner>> He can't pass his plan. He could pass Reid's plan because he would get Democratic support and since it doesn't raise taxes he could get non tea party republican support. But he is an idiot. He could have taken Reid's plan and called it a win politically. Because of what he's said now it would be a loss if he settles for Reid's plan.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>They've created a monn-stah.<< Because so much of the GOP exists within the right wing Fox echo chamber, they have convinced themselves that a majority of America wants the Tea Party way. So, they continue to move the goal posts rightward. Obama has moved way over to what the GOP originally wanted for the most part, but the Tea Party has declared anything less that 150% of what they want to be "caving" so we're about to drive off a cliff. Not much time to avert an epic failure here.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Yes, the president has offered the sun, moon and stars to get a deal. That has been reduced to "Obama wants a blank check". This is not only not true, it's patently offensive. There's no dealing with liars and cheats. Republicans suddenly dropping in this new constitutional amendment requirement is beyond ridiculous, and the GOP mouthpieces are now pretending as if this is what they've been angling for all along, when the truth is that even they don't actually want it. They're also spouting off what the "american people want" while conveniently ignoring every single poll out there - because the polls show that the american people want exactly what the president is proposing - the "balanced approach" of spending cuts coupled with revenue increases from those best able to afford them. It's been said before, but if you have to continuously lie to support your side of an argument, you don't have an argument to make.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "It is a lie - and a stupid and obvious one, and one that I heard him repeat today. " Yes. But I have an uncle who is one of those low info voters who just listen to the echo chamber. Got an email from him today. Already he's repeating the "blank check" line and undoubtedly believes a) it's true, b) he's smart for "knowing"'that.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA I feel like Boehner is a crook -- right there with Dick Cheney, Newt Gingrich and Spiro Agnew. I just want to punch him in the face when he talks.
Originally Posted By mele I'd like to see that happen, Jim. Do we have a budget? How can we make this happen?
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA So? Now what? Boehner must have smoked a whole pack between yesterday and today. Jerk...
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Absolutely nothing will convince me now that the tea party doesn't want to burn down the country. And the "mainstream Republicans" are now beholden to the tea party in order to win their primary races. Teabaggers are the true traitors to our nation now. They're holding our country's economy and the world's economy hostage. They don't care if it all burns down to the ground. And the Republicans are letting them get away with it. I have zero respect for any Republican politician who allows the tea party to hijack the GOP. Either stand up to them or become an Independent. But don't let a small minority of fascist dingbats destroy our nation simply because you're afraid of what they will do to your political career. Cowards. Stinking rotten cowards.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Two years ago we had the 'big vote' on the health care bill. Many many democratic house members were concerned that voting for it would cost them their seat. They were right, but they did it anyway. And the nation received near universal healthcare as a result. They put nation ahead of their own personal interests - an important difference between democrats and republicans.
