Originally Posted By mawnck >>At this point I actually think the Tea Party is actively trying to crash and burn the economy. They think it is the only way to sink Obama.<< I think it would be more accurate to say that they think it's the only way to **save** the economy. There's a lot to be said for taking our medicine now rather than later. (And I've been saying it for some time.) They just forget that taking the whole bottle at the same time will mess you up.
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Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I don't think the tea partyers give a rat's a$$ about the economy, or America. They just want their country back from the scary black man. And are willing to do ANYTHING to get it back. Even if they have to kill it first. Just like a jelous Ex.<< Exatamundo!
Originally Posted By mawnck >>I don't think the tea partyers give a rat's a$$ about the economy, or America.<< Sigh. I'm so tired of demonizing "the other side", especially when it involves a sweeping generalization like this one. I'm becoming convinced that, for the majority of them, their motives are pure. They just aren't real good at thinking things through. They really are doing this to save their country from a perceived threat, and the threat being black has little to do with it. When I was perusing redstate.com yesterday, there was a post from an angry older dude that railed against Obama and used some "racially charged" language ... fairly mild stuff, relatively speaking. The chiding he received in response was swift and unanimous. Obviously you can come up with lots of links to blatantly racist anti-Obama TP invective, and so can I. But is that really where the majority of the Tea Party has their heads at? Or have you just decided that it is, because it makes your position seem more righteous by comparison? The danger is in the leadership that drives that anger in disturbing directions.
Originally Posted By mawnck BTW ... looks like Boehner doesn't have the votes: <a href="http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/archives/2011/07/whipping-the-bo.php" target="_blank">http://hotlineoncall.nationalj...e-bo.php</a>
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>But is that really where the majority of the Tea Party has their heads at?<< Where the majority of the tea party has their heads is somewhere dark and cramped.
Originally Posted By dshyates So mawnck, you don't think the fact he is a black guy with a Muslim name who has, against their wishes, taken control of their country plays any part in the fear the noise machine has generated in these people? I know that my folks, elderly white folks, who I otherwise would not consider racists, but who watch FOX News 24/7, have since Obama took office expressed an over the top irrational fear about everything the man represents.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I'm becoming convinced that, for the majority of them, their motives are pure.<< Based on what?
Originally Posted By hopemax You know what they say the road to hell is paved with. Pure intentions are pretty meaningless in the long run. But there are a lot of people out there that believe that people in need got there because of results of decisions of their own making. Not because they are trying to "stick it" to a particular group. That the country just needs a big dose of "tough love." You don't need to extend unemployment for people because they are only not working because they are lazy and obviously haven't tried hard enough to get a job. You don't need to have social security because smart people have saved for their own retirement. Nevermind, that the word retiree didn't exist before 1945 and that most people worked until they died, or ended up living with one of their kids. You shouldn't have Medicaid and child services because if parents learn that they are responsible for the raising of their own kids, maybe they won't have so many of them. IMO, most of this is rooted in the cliched difference between recession and depression. Too many people don't believe they could ever find themselves in need of a social safety net. So they don't need to protect it.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>So mawnck, you don't think the fact he is a black guy with a Muslim name who has, against their wishes, taken control of their country plays any part in the fear the noise machine has generated in these people?<< That's the **exact** opposite of what I said. >>Based on what?<< Based on what they say. Based on being tired of believing that 30 percent of the country is pure evil. Based on this article, which I linked to earlier: <a href="http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2011/07/27/what-is-the-end-game-for-big-government/" target="_blank">http://www.redstate.com/dhorow...ernment/</a> Note that I am talking about the average Fox viewer here, not Sarah Palin. They are misinformed, gullible, scared, angry, and perhaps not very bright. That does not mean we have to throw every other invective we can think of in their direction. It. Only. Makes. Things. Worse.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>It. Only. Makes. Things. Worse.<< President Obama has been about as cool a customer as can be. He tries to remain patient, logical and not lash out at his political enemies, even when they endlessly paint him as the spawn of Satan. And it's admirable and all, but they don't tone down their rhetoric a bit. They hate him, through and through. And they hate anyone who does not share their "vision" for this country. Myself, I'm a little sick of listening to these clowns and pretending that they have anything legitimate to say. They see the world through an Ayn Rand/Fox News filter of no compromise, ever. I think their politics are misguided and dangerous, and would send the country backward. I do hope that in the next election, people bother to vote. Poll after poll shows that a majority of Americans are not in line with the TP mindset, and thank God in heaven for that.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "WHAT ABOUT NAOMI? (If you got that, gee you're old.)" I'm old. And Ioved the EC.
Originally Posted By dshyates Did you guys know that that Naomi is the mother of Maggie and Jake Gyllenhaal?
Originally Posted By gadzuux As predicted earlier, Boehner doesn't have the votes to pass his most recent bill. The bill that was described as a "big wet sloppy kiss to the tea party". The thing is custom built FOR THEM ALONE - so that some progress can begin, but they won't pass it. It's been three full days that we've been sitting and waiting and watching, only to see them fail yet again. How much time are we going to give them? And what difference does it make anyway, given that whatever they might manage to eventually pass is DOA'r than the last one - the one tied to a constitutional amendment. It's some cold comfort to know that it would be too farfetched - even for republicans - to try to make the case that it was the "other guy's fault" when the whole house of cards come tumbling down. Any day now.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>And what difference does it make anyway, given that whatever they might manage to eventually pass is DOA'r than the last one<< A fella named Rand Paul pointed this out, wondering why they should expect him to compromise his principles for a bill that the Senate was literally standing by to zap anyway. Boehner is making more cuts to see if he can get the 2 or 3 more votes he needs. Dwindling chance that this will get done by August 2nd.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>It's some cold comfort to know that it would be too farfetched - even for republicans - to try to make the case that it was the "other guy's fault" when the whole house of cards come tumbling down.<< Oh, they'll try. But John McCain called them out for it the other day in a most memorable fashion. He's right, the American people will know exactly who is to blame for this self-inflicted wound we're about to suffer through. None of this had to happen. The Tea Party Freshman done it. I may scream the next time someone calls the GOP the party of "fiscal responsibility."
Originally Posted By Dabob2 In his remarks today, Obama - after previously downplaying the idea that he might invoke the 14th amendment and simply keep paying the bills without the debt ceiling being formally raised - obliquely referred to "Senator McConnell's proposal" as a possibility if all else fails. McConnell's proposal - assuming this is the one Obama meant - was that Obama do that. McConnell meant for that to be a negative for Obama (of course) - that they could then blame big spending on him. But as it is playing out, he may look like the only adult in the room if he's forced to do it.
