Originally Posted By gadzuux My understanding of the McConnell plan is that congress voluntarily cede their authority to raise the ceiling, while giving individual congressional members the opportunity to vote in 'disapproval' - three separate times. As weasely as that is, it's different from the president just invoking the 14th amendment and raising the ceiling essentially by fiat. One important difference is that congress could conceivably vote to impeach the president - and don't think they wouldn't do it either. With the McConnell plan, Obama is somewhat indemnified from impeachment, since it was congress's idea in the first place, and they'd vote to approve their ability to vote to disapprove.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Right - I didn't say it wasn't weasely. It was designed to a). put the blame on Obama, b). innoculate Republicans from charges that they're big spenders too by taking the meaningless "disapproval" votes, and c). absolve Congress from the responsibility of making tough decisions. In return for which, the country gets to not default on its debts, which is not something that was ever seriously held over our heads before. Weasely it is, but I think it may backfire on McConnell if Obama is forced to do it.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney >>>McConnell meant for that to be a negative for Obama (of course) - that they could then blame big spending on him. But as it is playing out, he may look like the only adult in the room if he's forced to do it.<<< He will look like the only adult in the room to you, and me, and most of the people in this discussion. But he will be villianized by the right wing FOX viewers. Nothing he does will be right. If there is no plan passed and the US defaults, it will be his fault. If he gives in at the last minute to save the economy, that will be his fault. There are more than enough people in this country who are SO brainwashed that they don't see anything wrong with what the Tea Party is doing and everything wrong with whatever Obama does. I know a lot of TP'ers, unfortunately, am related to several.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I am too. And you're right - to them anything Obama does will be wrong. But they are pretty much unreachable. The key is moderates, who to a degree voted Republican in 2010 in a reaction to the bad economy in general, but largely sat out the election. They tend to vote in presidential year elections. And I don't think they like what they're seeing from the GOP lately, if the polls are any indication. They disenchanted with Democrats too, but REALLY disenchanted with Republicans. If Obama looks like the adult to them, it will stand him in good stead.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney Hope so. Someone mentioned taking money out of the bank. Does that really seem necessary? I'd hate to lose my savings, but honestly don't know enough about what will happen if we default to know if our money is safe in the bank. We did make sure our stocks are safe.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf If it's any consolation, I strongly believe the right is shooting itself in the foot here and handing the left a huge victory next November. They gravely misunderstood their "'mandate" from last november. Moderates still complete any majority in this country and know who is to blame for this mess. The tea baggers are going to get reduced to nothing next year, just watch.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I hope you're right, eighth dwarf. The public's memory seems to be very, very short these days. But I do hope you're right.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>I'd hate to lose my savings, but honestly don't know enough about what will happen if we default to know if our money is safe in the bank.<< FDIC Insurance is one of the things that would most likely cease to be honored in the event of a default. So no, your money would not be safe in a bank. Of course, your money won't be safe anywhere if they decide to go all Weimar Republic on us to "solve" the debt problem.
Originally Posted By Sara Tonin These right wingers don't seem to remember when Gingrich was speaker of the house...there was an impasse on budget talks and Gingrich forced a government shut down...I got three days off and got paid for those days in the end anyway, and Bill Clinton got re-elected...
Originally Posted By DyGDisney >>>FDIC Insurance is one of the things that would most likely cease to be honored in the event of a default. So no, your money would not be safe in a bank.<<< So are you planning to take your money out of the bank? I have a hard time wrapping my head around that idea!
Originally Posted By mawnck >>So are you planning to take your money out of the bank?<< I'm not as worried about my bank (well, credit union actually, mom didn't raise no fools) as I am about a run on all the ATMs in town, making cash difficult to come by. And yes, as a matter of fact I am keeping a stash of cash in an undisclosed location until all this blows over, or blows up, or does whatever it's going to do. It's not like it's earning oodles of interest in the money market anyway. I don't know that I'd be willing to leave any money in, say, a Bank of America account right now. A blowup in Europe coupled with a debt ceiling crisis in the US could cause serious problems for them ... and as a small account holder, you wouldn't exactly be their first priority.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney How is a credit union safer than a bank? It seems in the past, credit unions have had troubles. I have accounts in both Chase bank, and a local credit union.
Originally Posted By ecdc Even Bill O'Reilly gets it. He went off on Republicans the other night, saying their rhetoric is so hateful and they're only helping Obama and hurting themselves by not passing a moderate deal.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney ^^WOW! That's a surprise. Was that on FOX, because if so, he'll probably be out of a job soon.
Originally Posted By hopemax Well, now that Boehner has got his bill past the House, we might need to move on to the McConnell: Burn it All Down thread. A recent tweet: (The Last Word is Lawrence O'Donnell's show on MSNBC) On @thelastword, Kent Conrad says McConnell has informed Reid he will not negotiate with him, only with the president McConnell is also threatening to filibuster Reid's bill.
Originally Posted By mawnck Now the deal passes, the rich get richer, you get poorer, and the Super Congress bickers loudly for a few months without coming within light years of an agreement. Meanwhile the EU collapses, plunging the world into a depression and making the whole thing moot, and leaving us at the mercy of a dysfunctional US government who will be unable to do a dang thing to stem the damage to our own economy. <a href="http://www.businessinsider.com/european-crisis-2011-8" target="_blank">http://www.businessinsider.com...s-2011-8</a> Well what did you expect from an opera? A **happy** ending?
Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
