Originally Posted By Mr X >>>I’ve never quite understood the purist’s demanding total isolation from the world anyway. For the Magic Kingdom, yes. The place is a fantasyland and you don’t want the real world poking in. But Epcot (and DCA) are all about the real world. You are taking a standard Walt created for a fantasy park and trying to apply it to everything. That’s the problem I have with the "purists". They take a design standard that Walt had for ONE place at ONE specific time and declare that they are sacred principles governing all future Disney development. Poppycock.<<< RT, I would tend to disagree. I think that for ANY themepark, they are striving to have you see things that are DESIGNED to immerse you in "that world". Sure, Epcot is about "real world", but it's the Epcot version of the real world. I was pretty shocked the first time I went there and noticed the Swan and Dolphin killing the whole scale and scheme of World Showcase (Eiffel Tower, "off in the distance"...now totally looks like a little toy...it wasn't like that before). And as for DCA...well... I think Walt Disney's standard of fantasy and "non-intrusion" makes perfect sense, and works well with any theme park concept. Sure, there are visual intrusions here and there and that's not something that can be completely dealt with realistically (I was so surprised to ride Splash Mountain in Tokyo and look out onto the lights of Urayasu city...I was so used to Splash in Florida where nothing but Magic was within eyesight), BUT, it's a little lame when they have choices to make on their OWN property and choose to ruin the immersion by putting up tall hotels and such. But, that's the way the cookie crumbled. Yet another reason why *I* should have been Disney CEO after Walt died (I should have been appointed, like a Prince, right after my birth...).
Originally Posted By plpeters70 "It is different (at least to me) from a "weenie" which is supposed to draw people into specific areas of the park." I see what you're saying, but I do see those icons as weenies - their job is to draw you further into the park. I guess it's just a matter of semantics.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 “As others have pointed our far better than I, many Future World buildings can be seen from the Showcase and they really don't fit in any more naturally than the Swan or Dolphin hotels.†The Future World buildings have never been a problem for me – those things were designed to be seen from the World Showcase. Just like the castle at the MK can be seen from all over the park – it was designed that way originally. But, quite obviously, the Swan and Dolphin were not meant to loom over the park and destroy the theming and scale of the World Showcase – it was obviously a decision by someone outside of Imagineering.
Originally Posted By danyoung > I don't see how Dolphin and Swan is any different from the futuristic pyramids of Journey Into Your Imagination juxtaposed against the Canada pavilion when you look across World Showcase Lagoon.< I'm surprised it took 49 posts for this point to be brought up. And then there's that big monster golf ball thing that you can see from anywhere in the World Showcase! How can I possible pretend that I'm really in Germany or France with that big thing there??? I think the Swan and Dolphin fit nicely into the fantasy skyline. I mean, I'm pretty sure I'm not really looking at the Eiffel Tower or a 5-level tower in Japan when I'm strolling around the WS (well, unless that 5th martini has kicked in!). So a pyramid and a gently curved tower in the distance both fit in very nicely to my eye. And on the subject of weenies, the castles in the middle of the MK and DL are indeed weenies - Walt himself called the Sleeping Beauty Castle the weenie that drew people down Main Street and into the central courtyard, and from there into the many lands available. If it's big and attracts attention, it's a weenie, whether it's a castle, a mountain, a big carved tree or a BAH. And I HATE the wand, and please move the BAH!!!
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <I'm surprised it took 49 posts for this point to be brought up. And then there's that big monster golf ball thing that you can see from anywhere in the World Showcase! How can I possible pretend that I'm really in Germany or France with that big thing there???> Please... I'm not suggesting that while in the France or Germany pavilion that you're supposed to think you're in those countries. Good gravy. [pulling out a flip chart and colorful markers] EPCOT Center was built as one theme park -- Future World and World Showcase. Looking across the bay at the various World Showcase countries, one could say that it was designed with a particular theme in mind -- perhaps 'Countries around the World.' As first imagined, World Showcase was going to be all indoor pavilions that all looked essentially the same. Let's go to slide #1 <a href="http://www.waltdatedworld.bravepages.com/id207.htm" target="_blank">http://www.waltdatedworld.brav epages.com/id207.htm</a> Since that didn't come to be, it was decided to make the countries more in keeping with their native architecture -- and that becomes the design throughline. Looking back from World Showcase to Future World, Spaceship Earth and Imagination pyramids and the monorail become the 'weenies' for that Future World. But it's all in the same park. The Dolphin and Swan has nothing to do with World Showcase or EPCOT or Future World. It's just sloppy planning that totally interrupts the flow of design that is World Showcase. I also feel that the show building for 'Soarin' Over California' is a visual intrustion. It should have been placed where it isn't so jarring.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> And as I motioned in a prior post, there is no way anything outside the park presents an intrusion as jarring and just plain ugly as the fireworks barges. << Truer words were never spoken. I have to agree 100%.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 But what a show those barges put on, how about some camouflage for them in the daytime?
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Or even something as simple as putting solid walls on the sides so they just look like big black boxes during the day. (Not sure what to do about the globe). Part of what bothers me so much about them is that they are clearly very industrial structures intended to be used when they can't really be seen. If the walls get in the way of things being launched, than make them curtains or something that can be removed for the show. But all the exposed framework and mortars look terrible during the day. With modern technology, would it be possible to set them up after the sun goes down? Get them ready backstage and then just float them to their spots after it is as easy to see, and then let them do their thing. I'm sure there is some easy solution to this that could work. Heck, BraveSEAmo at TDS shoots fireworks off of the firebird that is completely submerged all day long, so maybe they could use something similar to that, where the barges are loaded at night/early morning and hide under the surface during the day, and poke up before the show.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 "I also feel that the show building for 'Soarin' Over California' is a visual intrustion. It should have been placed where it isn't so jarring." You know, it probably wouldn't be so bad if they had at least attempted to make it look like it fit in with the futuristic architecture of Future World. It's not like they had to just build it in the shape of an ugly airline hanger -- they could have designed the "shell" of the building to be anything they wanted. They just chose the cheap approach.
Originally Posted By Mr X Anyone got any pics of that Soarin show building? I'm curious to see what makes it stick out so badly... Hey TDLFAN, if noone else has pics here, maybe you could skip on out there and shoot a few pics for me?
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA ssWEDguy has pictures on his site <a href="http://ssdisney.home.att.net/steve/soarinovercanada1_x.htm" target="_blank">http://ssdisney.home.att.net/s teve/soarinovercanada1_x.htm</a>
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy Here's a link to some pictures from back when people were discussing the matter early on. A bit wordy, but the pictures are useful. <a href="http://ssdisney.home.att.net/steve/soarinovercanada1_x.htm" target="_blank">http://ssdisney.home.att.net/s teve/soarinovercanada1_x.htm</a>
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy Jinks! How cool is that. We must have hit the Enter key at exactly the same time.
Originally Posted By Mr X lol. Thanks for the links guys (great minds think alike, I guess). Yeah, that does look pretty bad. I was sort of thinking it would be a boxy "warehouse" looking thing though (like other show buildings). The way it's so rounded makes me think that idea on the picture site is a really good one (make it up to look like mountains). Anyway, yes. It's ugly and makes world showcase look bad. So do Swan and Dolphin. Funny thing is, I really do LIKE the way those hotels look...in fact, I LOVE how that's the first thing you see when driving in from one of the main highways (the one off 192 maybe?). But from Epcot, no it really doesn't work for me. Tower of Terror doesn't bug me for some reason.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj Nice pictures in the links except that you only get those shots at very specific angles and it only really stands out with a telephoto lens. 99% of your time spent in EPCOT, you don't see those views and you can't tell the difference. This is making a mountain out of a molehill.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA Thanks for setting us straight, mrichmondj. Suddenly all those visual instrusions have melted away. In fact, I really like them now.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj No one needs to like them. I'm just trying to provide a perspective that isn't shaped by a telephoto lens. Honestly, if you aren't looking for these things, you don't notice them at all. When I was at EPCOT last Spring, I was all set to have my EPCOT experience ruined by these intrusions and was pleasantly surprised to find that unless I stood in exactly the weirdest spot along the World Showcase promenade and angled my head in the right way standing on my tip toes I really wouldn't have known these "intrusions" were there. Honestly, Space Mountain at DLR is a more egregious intrusion than anything looming over the EPCOT skyline.
