Originally Posted By DVC_Pongo Having said that, for the record I would also like to say that I am not one of these "From my cold dead hands..." sorts of people. I would always abide by the law of the land. If there is one thing I believe in more than the 2nd amendment, it is the system we have in place. Once we collectively lose hope and faith in the system we have, all is lost. So we all need to work WITHIN the system to bring about the changes we want. That's how it works. That's the only fair way. That is the American way. (Queue America The Beautiful, and send the F-22's overhead for a red white and blue smoke fly by...) ;P
Originally Posted By Mr X It's certainly a subject worthy of serious discussion, and I believe there are a lot of posters here who can contribute to it. I appreciate all of your comments so far DVC, and I don't think you've said anything untoward (I'm still researching Scotland though, that's an interesting case study to be sure!).
Originally Posted By DVC_Pongo Thanks for being congenial about it Mr. X. You're a jewel around here. Please never leave no matter how much we agree or disagree. (I feel all warm and cozy now)
Originally Posted By Mr X ***You're a jewel around here.*** Yes. Yes I am. ***Please never leave no matter how much we agree or disagree.*** Better convince Doug to start treating me more deferentially then. ;p
Originally Posted By DVC_Pongo LOL Yeah Riiiiiight! I know there is no way you would leave based on anything Doug does or says. LOL!!! Good funny you make saying it though! LOL
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I see a few posts relating to getting a gun as similar to taking a drivers test. While I'm not saying it's a bad idea, in fact, it may even be a great idea, the argument kind of falls apart in comparison.> Well, no analogy is perfect, but the idea is that you would need to demonstrate proficiency and knowledge of safety issues before being licensed. Even Chris/Pongo/whoamItoday agreed with that. <The other issue is, how do you take the gun test, if you don't already own the gun? You can get your learner's permit on basic information, but your permentant license would have to be on a specific piece. While there are similarities between designs, like cars, each one handles different. > That one's easy. I wasn't talking about getting a license for a specific gun, but rather to be able to be a gun owner in the first place. Yes, that's different from how it works with cars, but why wouldn't it be - it's a different issue. Once you demonstrate via these classes that you know what you're doing, you can get as many guns as the law allows, just as changing cars doesn't mean you lose your drivers license. Now for radically different KINDS of firearms, maybe there would be different licenses; say, for handguns and rifles, as you now need a different license to operate cars, trucks, and motorcycles.
Originally Posted By Mr X Would a shoulder mounted missile launcher license be sort of like an eighteen wheeler license? Or maybe an Uzi. Those always sounded really cool to me. What kind of license do I need for an Uzi?
Originally Posted By hightp There have been many comparisons between the US and other countries in the area of gun crime. It's said that the US has more gun crime than Japan (just as an example), but how does the US fair against those same countries in other crime? If it were just gun crime in the US that was higher than other countries, it would be a major issue, but I believe the US excels in other crime areas, as well, be it assault, robbery, home invasion, whatever. Then again, the US has always been a violent place, so I don't think you can pin 'owning firearms' as the main reason for our violence. Someone above (I apologize for not knowing who) mentioned that most of the gun deaths in the US are from suicides. Would removing guns from society stop that? Probably not. A country like Japan has twice the rate of suicides (per the World Health Organization) than the US, and they have very sever gun control. Such actions are the result of the environment as much as anything else.
Originally Posted By hightp Mr X, an Uzi, at least the full auto version would be kind of like a sports car. If your talking about the semi auto version, it's more of the Mini-Van.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh Sorry that I just now got around to reading this thread, but I noticed something I wanted to correct. Mr X twice said that 3 children die in gun accidents each day. In actuality, the story says one every three days. A while ago, I read that more kids are killed by drowning in 5 gallon buckets than are accidentally killed by guns.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>K2oonMan, I know your canvas and paper and art materials cannot hurt or kill. << Don't be too sure. The pen is mightier than the sword. >>But MY guns and those of my family WON'T ever be a threat to anyone either. Outlawing private ownership would be like taking your ability to draw and create away.<< I am not in favor of outlawing private ownership. Never said I was. I know plenty of responsible people who own guns, and all I'm saying is that I wish the NRA would get on the side that says that THE TRAINING THEY THEMSELVES PROVIDE ought to be a mandatory requirement for gun ownership. That doesn't stop any responsible person from getting a gun but it could remind at least a few people not to leave their guns in a place accessible to children. >>In actuality, the story says one every three days.<< I think you'd agree that is still a ridiculously high number. If mandatory gun training/safety courses could save even a fraction of those lives, it would be worth it. I don't think dismissing it with "More kids die as a result of _____________ " serves any purpose. Of course children die accidentally from all sorts of things. But this thing -- guns left accessible -- is an entirely 100% PREVENTABLE thing.
Originally Posted By piperlynne Exactly, guns, buckets are merely the vehicle through which negligence causes these tragedies to happen. I'm sorry, but I don't believe this is a right we should amend away. Maybe we should pass an amendment banning stupid, negligent people instead?
Originally Posted By piperlynne I'm not going to even entertain the thought that I'm up on the NRA stance on anything. But I don't get why they would not be for required training and regulation (as long as it does not infringe on the right to bear arms). I would think the more informed, responsible gun owners there are and showing the steps to keep it that way, might (maybe)make a better argument to those that say guns are bad and should be banned. so, for the record - Fully support the 2nd amendment. Not so sure about the NRA. ;-)
Originally Posted By DyGDisney >>> If the economy ever does completely tank, at least I will still have the means and know how to procure food. It may mean nothing, but I find some comfort in it.<<< What does this mean? It sounds like you are saying having a gun will be a way to get food. Do you mean you will use the gun to take food from others? I understand saying the gun will protect you from others taking your food, but it sounds as if you are saying the flip.
Originally Posted By piperlynne >>> If the economy ever does completely tank, at least I will still have the means and know how to procure food. It may mean nothing, but I find some comfort in it.<<< What does this mean? It sounds like you are saying having a gun will be a way to get food. Do you mean you will use the gun to take food from others? I understand saying the gun will protect you from others taking your food, but it sounds as if you are saying the flip.<< I believe he was saying he could hunt. Not take food from the neighbors at gunpoint.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Do you mean you will use the gun to take food from others?<< He was referring to hunting. But then again, you never know what one will do for a Klondike Bar!
Originally Posted By DyGDisney >>>I believe he was saying he could hunt. Not take food from the neighbors at gunpoint. <<< Okay, I get it now. I guess I always think of growing a garden in those circumstances. I thought of taking food from people at gunpoint because years ago my boss where I worked, who was an old, pot smoking hippie, said some day people would be stealing food from our families at gunpoint so we should all have guns to protect ourselves.
