Originally Posted By TP2000 Post #33 is perfect. Thank you oc_dean for bringing some reality to this conversation. Yes, for the record, I know that Cynthia Harriss is not actually, literally, folding sweaters as part of her work at The Gap. I know that she has other things to do and the President of that organization does not actually go out to the salesfloor and fold sweaters this time of year. But since I love Disneyland, and Cynthia Harriss was in charge of the place during some of the darkest years in Disneyland's history, I get to poke fun of her on an Internet message board by insinuating that she is now folding sweaters. It's a joke. We all know Cynthia was canned for her poor performance at Disneyland, and that she then hightailed it to The Gap to work with Pressler again and try to regain some glory from her damaged career. So I call Cynthia a Gap Girl as a way of poking fun at her. And with the self-absorbed and puffed up attitude she herself displayed in that OCMetro interview six months ago as she reflected on her Disneyland time and her current work at The Gap, she deserves a little ribbing and poking. Gap Girl. Gap Girl. Gap Girl. And isn't it interesting that during the big 50th ceremonies they had this summer that ALL of the previous Disneyland executives were in attendance, from Lindquist to Nunis to Dominguez to Cora, etc. None of those guys work for Disney anymore, and some have even gone on to create other entertainment companies and organizations that theoretically compete with Disneyland. But in that long list of former Disneyland executives there was not a single glimpse of Pressler or Harriss this past summer. Why is that? Were they too busy up in San Fran planning the Spring '06 line to get down to OC for the day? Or was it because they were not invited due to the famously discredited nature of their tenure in Anaheim? Methinks it's the latter that kept Pressler and Harriss off the 50th guest list, while their predecessors all got invites and the VIP treatment from Disney. Fascinating how that works, isn't it? And that only strengthens my belief that Harriss and Pressler deserve some metaphorical ribbing about selling sweaters in the mall. That is what their current business does after all, is it not?
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney ''Just to correct this misstatement. Barry is still with WDI and his final day is in February.'' Yawn. So will Tales be running a retrospective on his run (of ineptitude and behind-kissing) at WDI?
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney As for Paul and Cynthia's salaries and stock packages somehow having a thing to do with their actual value to a company, I'd say get real and spend some time in the executive offices of any company in the 21st century. Pay and talent hardly ever equate. And when Paul is forced out of The Gap, rest assured Cynthia won't be far behind.
Originally Posted By LindsayC ---''Just to correct this misstatement. Barry is still with WDI and his final day is in February.'' Yawn. So will Tales be running a retrospective on his run (of ineptitude and behind-kissing) at WDI?--- I am sorry that factual information is so boring to you, though I do understand how much fiction rules on here. I am also amazed that you can make the leap from that to an article in Tales. The evidence of one fact does not an article make.
Originally Posted By TP2000 >>"And when Paul is forced out of The Gap, rest assured Cynthia won't be far behind."<< To spend more time with her family, no doubt.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney ''I am sorry that factual information is so boring to you, though I do understand how much fiction rules on here. I am also amazed that you can make the leap from that to an article in Tales. The evidence of one fact does not an article make.'' And I am sorry if my post (in jest) offended you. I took a shot at leemac, just like he's done at other posters here. A few months ago he swore he'd never post again because his feathers were ruffled over some discussion with a few other posters. But now he comes back and immediately responds on a thread about a guy who IMHO (and many at WDI and throughout Disney) should have been canned a long time ago to correct the unwashed masses that wrongly believe Barry's gone now as opposed to a month from now ..do you think he's doing any real work for Disney anymore? Knowing that you guys have favorite Imagineers (I assume Tony Baxter for instance isn't on your Christmas card list while Tom Fitzgerald is. ...BTW, that's a joke too!) it was just too easy a shot to take. Sorry, if your feathers were ruffled too.
Originally Posted By leemac Just to prove how much nonsense is out there I was emailed the following post from a MiceAge board on the same subject: "Barry was in charge of the development of DCA, Pooh, and Walt Disney Studios: France." Remarkable. Barry was the Creative Executive for DCA and had no hand in either of the other projects.
Originally Posted By SFH Most elementary school teachers I've known in my life understand people very well, and could probably do a darn good job of overseeing the development of a theme park... at least to the point where they'll be able to tell if something isn't going to work. Just didn't want the discussion to continue without addressing the remark about elementary school teachers. SFH
Originally Posted By idleHands "Just to prove how much nonsense is out there I was emailed the following post from a MiceAge board on the same subject" I read the MC thread. So... one misinformed poster out of more than 30, who didn't know that Braverman was not responsible for DL's Pooh or WDS Paris, is "proof" that "much nonsense" is "out there" on the discussion boards about the guy? Like I stated, I read the thread in question. Most of the info, if not all but this one particular post, is factual. And many of the personal opinions are fairly accurate with regard to Barry's personality and how he interacts with others. If you like the guy and/or respect his work, leemac, then you're entitled to those opinions. But you shouldn't delude yourself regarding how other people think and feel about the guy. Barry was disliked if not outright hated by a myriad of folks in Creative and WDI-A who had to work with him and/or under him. While other Imagineers and Disney Legends were speaking out against the design and budgetary decisions being made for DCA, Braverman was instead defending those decisions, even after the park was open and receiving poor reviews and unexpectedly weak attendance. Barry turned against the theme park visitors and blamed THEM for the failings of DCA, publicly claiming that they just didn't "get it." That is arrogance beyond the pale, for ANY Imagineering executive to wallow in, regarding failed design decisions that he is responsible for making.
Originally Posted By leemac <<is "proof" that "much nonsense" is "out there" on the discussion boards about the guy?>> Yes it is. There are plenty of other factual inaccuracies in that thread and not a single person was able to correct even that particular misstatement. The issue I have always had about this is how personal it becomes to Disney fans. Even the legendary Aspen retreat is incorrectly relayed amongst the community. I find it galling that everyone rallies against the likes of Barry, Timur Galen and Tim Delaney whilst at the same time revering Marty. He approved the project as did every other executive like Tom Fitzgerald and Wing Chao. Every single one of them thought that DCA was the right concept and executed as best as could possibly have been. It seems the fan base disagreed but there was no doubt within the corridors of Flower Street that DCA had the unequivocal support of everyone concerned. There is a direct correlation between those imagineers that are active in the fan community with those that are revered. idleHands in light of the fact that the second post on this thread came from you and is totally inaccurate highlights how much nonsense is out there. Barry has been and will continue to work on projects for WDI until his planned departure next month to pursue another venture.
Originally Posted By arstogas >>>>>>Now, this is a truly snide comment. How can executives run the Gap and not know what they are selling?<<< >>>Well, Woody, that's more or less how they ran Disneyland, right?<<< >>>Oh brother.<<< Now that was truly a remark that shows blatant ignorance, or willful ignorance, of how appropriate Harriss' or Pressler's management style was in relation to what they were "selling". They truly DIDN'T know what they were selling, and examples are plentiful. Both in what was shut down and what was created under their watch and by their more or less timid initiative. "Oh brother" indeed. It shows that some people react more TO THE PERSON rather than to the STATEMENT. Cue...Disneywatcher's latest analogy... ;-)
Originally Posted By woody Braverman is the example of how public schools went downhill. There is no good instruction. Everything is commercialized and mass marketed to a non-audience. No one knows how to teach. There is no one learning the lessons.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>Cue...Disneywatcher's latest analogy... ;-) << OH,OHH... OHH...OHH ... CAN I DO IT? CAN I DO IT????? :O) Forget who's in charge of who ... who's under this person .. who's over that person .. or budgets .. budgets .. budgets ....... So much comes down to TASTES...... T.A.S.T.E.S. !!!!!
Originally Posted By oc_dean And Barry Braverman (apparently) thought he had ~good~ tastes in some of his executive decisions.
Originally Posted By oc_dean And for those curious with the similar topic on 'Braverman' simaltenously running at Micechat, which I'm participating in too (since I'm 50/50 between here and Micechat)..... here's a link: <a href="http://www.micechat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17012" target="_blank">http://www.micechat.com/forums /showthread.php?t=17012</a> Or go to: 1. "Disneyland Resort" 2. "Barry Braverman laid off from WDI?"
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <And Barry Braverman (apparently) thought he had ~good~ tastes in some of his executive decisions.> Don't we all? Don't you, oc_dean?
Originally Posted By idleHands "Don't we all? Don't you, oc_dean?" But there are varying levels of confidence in all decisions we make, depending upon what we're making decisions about. Regarding DCA, Fitzgerald and Braverman had ready access to "experts" in the field of theme park design. Heck, these experts basically invented the theme park, back in the fifties. They were the first Imagineers, who paved the way for others like Braverman to follow. And these Disney Legends HATED the decisions that were being made, including the park's layout, sight lines, lack of detailed theming, lack of compelling attractions, and over-reliance on off-the-shelf carnival rides. But Eisner didn't want to hear the words-o-wisdom from the First Generation Imagineers. Without any compelling evidence to support his theory, Eisner believed that Disney theme parks for the 21st century could be produced on the cheap, and people would flock to their gates and enjoy the experience, even more so than at the older, more traditional MK style parks. The Disney Legends knew better, we all knew better, but Eisner didn't. And any Imagineering executive wishing to remain an Imagineering executive under Eisner, needed to drink the Kool-Aid and chant the "less is more" mantra while DCA was being designed and built. And Braverman chose to drink the Kool-Aid. But the mind control didn't stop, once DCA opened. Barry continued drinking the Kool-Aid, even after DCA failed to meet attendance expectations. He became so drunk on the stuff, like most substance abusers, he turned his shame outward onto others (the theme park going public) and blamed THEM for DCA's failings. Barry conned himself into believing that DCA was truly great, but that the theme park visitor didn't "get it," because of some personal flaw or inferior cognitive process. That little speech should have been rewarded with an immediate pink slip. The Disney Legends nailed the failings of the park before it opened. Eisner, Pressler, Braverman, Fitzgerald, et al, blew it with DCA, big time. And hopefully, the remaining executives who were responsible for this debacle won't be waiting long for their exit instructions, either.
Originally Posted By leemac <<The Disney Legends nailed the failings of the park before it opened.>> Who and when then? As I said before the entire WDI management team signed off on DCA and the project had a lot of experienced hands on it. A trunkload actually when compared to those working on TDS at the time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and many imagineers in the public eye have used it to their benefit. idleHands you also overuse the term Disney Legends. Before 2001 there were only a handful of Legends granted their award for Imagineering that were still alive. The Legend award is often awarded posthumously.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I find it hilarious (and sad) that these discussions about DCA always spiral down into an office politics debate.
Originally Posted By leemac ^^ Yup and how a handful of individuals get the entire blame for a project heading south. Always easier to point the finger at blame at smaller target.
