Originally Posted By trekkeruss The following is a edited version of post #98, in case it is removed for violating community standards: You have NO IDEA what kind of a worker or manager I am. As a technician, I am EXTREMELY particular, and as a manager, I get frustrated to no end when other techs do sh**** work. You try to paint me as some kind of apologist. I have news for you: I am not. I know the park has problems. I just don't dwell on them like you do, BECAUSE IT'S POINTLESS. It's a freakin' theme park, a place I go to enjoy. I DON'T WORK THERE. So what good does it do me to angry at those who built the place? What good does it do YOU?
Originally Posted By mstaft Post #88 was excellent: intellegent, well thought out, and factual. I miss Eureka, too, Jim-in-Merced! Felt it gave the park an entertaining foundation that was also accomplished with Golden Dreams.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> I know the park has problems. I just don't dwell on them like you do, BECAUSE IT'S POINTLESS. << But if you did work for the DisCo and your attitude still leaned in the direction of not wanting to dwell on the goofs and that it was pointless to do otherwise -- and you remained indignant towards people who were critical of the park and its creators -- then you'd be living in a dream world if you didn't think that attitude wouldn't have some effect on the decisionmaking process, namely to make it far likelier that blunders would be pushed through, if not outright happily accepted. Example: "Yes, sir, Mr. Eisner, your idea for Paradise Pier is very, ah, er, good! I'd rather not dwell on, and it is kind of pointless to single out, anything less than the good elements of your concept."
Originally Posted By woody What balance do you expect? DCA is great and DCA sucks. There's your balance.
Originally Posted By Blacksheep Uncle you know...disneywatchers mantra/chant whatever you want to call it might have some merit...if and it's a BIG IF...if there was any correlation between liking one thing and liking another... the argument seems to be that if someone that had a hand in building liked vanilla ice cream then every thing that person did at DCA would be enjoyed by everyone else that likes vanilla ice cream...it's a patently silly argument and it's gotten beyond old having to scroll thought it when it's regurgitated ad-nauseum in virtually every thread about DCA the bottom line is people at all levels, from the tippy top on Micheal Eisner's block head, to the custodial CM sweeping up, to to the evil AP soaking up attraction time at DCA, all have different opinions on different things...and trying to guess what kind of personality someone has and whether they would make good decisions based on how they feel about Paradise Pier, or Condor Flats, or their favorite flavor of ice cream is beyond silly... and further the attitude that the only good decisions made by others are those that one agrees with is the height of arrogance
Originally Posted By Blacksheep Uncle opps...what I'd give for and edit button (and an ignore button for that matter) it should read like this: <<the argument seems to be that if someone that had a hand in building DCA<<
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>But if you did work for the DisCo<< But he doesn't. GIVE IT A REST, PLEASE, WITH THE PSYCHOANALYSIS? WE GET IT. SERIOUSLY. IT'S GETTING PATHETIC. Now look. You made me scream and the neighbor's dog is barking.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Seriously, Disneywatcher -- if I were in charge of building a second theme park next to Disneyland, it would likely not resemble DCA in any way, shape or form. That said, if you worked for me, I would listen to your ideas, encourage your input. Then we'd have what's called give-and-take, where we'd hone down the idea you presented into something that worked within the bounds of fiscal reality. Ask any creative, they'll tell you that this part of the process sucks, because it often involves some compromises. Michelangelo, I'm sure, needed a bigger ceiling. You would come into my office and make your case as to why we couldn't possibly cut this, that or the other thing. Some of those arguments you would win, some you wouldn't. But my goodness, if you walked into my office every morning for 5 years, unable to let go of whatever point bugged you the most about, day after day after bloody day making the same point, I'd suggest that perhaps enough was enough and that you might be better off availing yourself of the wonderful free enterprise system we have in this country and go build your very own park.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <Post #88 was excellent: intellegent, well thought out, and factual.> <I miss Eureka, too, Jim-in-Merced! Felt it gave the park an entertaining foundation that was also accomplished with Golden Dreams.> well, mstaft, we're part of a very small community of folks who like 'Eureka!' and 'Golden Dreams.' If you say you also like 'Seasons of the Vine' I may faint.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "well, mstaft, we're part of a very small community of folks who like 'Eureka!' and 'Golden Dreams.' If you say you also like 'Seasons of the Vine' I may faint." Don't faint, Jim. I enjoyed all three. I still can't fathom how they could have not only stopped performing Eureka, but demolished the floats so quickly ... again proving that the powers-that-were had no clue whatsoever what they were doing.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Wow! 4 of us like all three of those! Jim, quit while you're ahead. Don't ask about Superstar Limo. That's always the dealbreaker.
Originally Posted By TP2000 I'm late to the party, but allow me to say that DlandDug's post #88 was one of the most balanced and realistic summations of DCA's opening year flaws I've ever read. Thank you for the trip down memory lane! While I was never a fan of La Feet, with or without Max, and I found Three Bags Full to be one of the creepiest things I've seen on or off Disney property, I have always enjoyed Seasons Of The Vine. THe real pain of Seasons Of The Vine is that it so rarely operates. It isn't operated by Attractions CM's, but rather by the restaurant CM's of the nearby wine bars, and they clearly don't have any concept of running an attraction like a properly staffed and managed "Attraction" should run. They will gladly fire up the show for you, if you know to go over to the bar and ask someone to do it, and they have the personnel to spare at that moment. That is no way to run a theme park and seems very amateurish; to have restaurant employees in charge of running a theatrical show that is officially an "Attraction", but who never actually stand over at the entrance of said Attraction operating the show every 15 minutes as it was designed to run. Can you imagine if you had to specifically go and ask the CM running the Tiki Juice Bar if you could please see the Enchanted Tiki Room performance? Only in DCA could they get away with such casual, under-the-table operation of a sponsored "Attraction". I'm sure the Mondavi folks have no idea their sponsored movie is being run so poorly, and they'd likely be furious if they knew it. But then, it's DCA, and they seem to operate in an alternate universe over there. A few weeks ago when Disneyland had shut down ticket sales and was bursting at the seams, DCA was only mildly busy and seemed to only be running on 6 of it's 8 cylinders. Even after all of the changes post #88 so eloquently outlined, DCA still isn't quite running at full speed 5 years after it opened. I hope the people that signed off on the place are embarassed, although most of them are now selling sweaters up in San Francisco and trying to pretend they never worked for Disney.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <I found Three Bags Full to be one of the creepiest things I've seen on or off Disney property> We thought they were terrific. Unusual [I'd never seen anyone perform in a costume of that kind], and they fit with the San Francisco area beautifully. We also got a kick out of the guests who would say 'what is it?' and 'why are they doing that?' -- guests would just freak out, almost panicking.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Three Bags Full is what are commonly called shroud mimes. They are typically used as ambient entertaiment in the special events industry. I can't tell you how many times I've seen those things at corporate parties... I liked Eureka though.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> if I were in charge of building a second theme park next to Disneyland, it would likely not resemble DCA in any way, shape or form. << But if you were in a group consisting of leemac, Blacksheep Uncle, Hans and trekkeruss, and there was another group made up of people who truly dislike DCA, and everyone was being supervised by Barry Braverman, or dependent on Michael Eisner for their salary, which set of people do you believe would be far likelier to go with the flow, to say, "well, er, ah, DCA is good enough, or is even quite nice in most ways. Besides, let's all focus only on its positive aspects!!"? If the correct guess meant the winner would get a $100 million Lotto ticket, I'd bet on the former group, not the latter, and I think a person would be quite foolish to bet the other way around. >> But my goodness, if you walked into my office every morning for 5 years, unable to let go of whatever point bugged you the most about, << And by the same token, Kar2oonMan, you keep pointing out and criticizing what I'm always pointing out and criticizing. I swear, you are so defensive or indignant about this issue that if I didn't know any better -- and if you were an upper-income person (as a Barry Braverman is) -- I'd think your house probably looked something like this: <a href="http://www.losanjealous.com/img/christmas_davids5.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.losanjealous.com/im g/christmas_davids5.jpg</a> Incidentally, the residence above is in one of the more affluent neighborhoods of Los Angeles and has developed an infamous reputation for several years. I think of it as the type of place that DCA's planners and creators would live in or judge as a perfectly fine house.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<which set of people do you believe would be far likelier to go with the flow, to say, "well, er, ah, DCA is good enough, or is even quite nice in most ways. Besides, let's all focus only on its positive aspects!!"?>> Here you go with the projecting again. I have left jobs because I didn't agree with how things were run. That is not going with the flow, is it?
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <Incidentally, the residence above is in one of the more affluent neighborhoods of Los Angeles and has developed an infamous reputation for several years. I think of it as the type of place that DCA's planners and creators would live in or judge as a perfectly fine house.> oh, brother.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> That is not going with the flow, is it? << But I'm guessing your job also didn't have something to do with designing a new Disney theme park. What I mean is that people who are very skilled or competent in one area may be less than that, or outright second-rate, in some other occupation, and visa versa. >> oh, brother. << Yea, and I remember thinking the same thing back in 2001 when you became quite *indignant* towards a writer from a local newspaper who took his young son to a day at DCA and wasn't very impressed by the park. He was the one who wrote that an afternoon at Dodger Stadium would have been a better choice for both of them, and slammed DCA for having design characteristics that weren't much nicer than those found at an outlet mall.
