Originally Posted By gadzuux Are you kidding? Do you think perhaps Powell's comments on MTP were just lame excuses? His 'public alter ego'? Given the width, depth and bredth of Powell's reasoning, I can't imagine questioning his sincerity.
Originally Posted By barboy If, and pretty much only if, he wants to back Obama because of race then absolutely he had better come to the table with 'legitimate' reasons or his days as a respected public figure are over. None of us know what Powell feels or what deeply motivates him. All we have is a public figure making public statements, that's it.
Originally Posted By barboy //Do you think perhaps Powell's comments on MTP were just lame excuses// Not really. Clearly if I had to place a bet I'd go with Powell being honorable as proven by his history. But again none of us truly know his intentions. We can only *assume* on this whole topic.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <It is quite possible that those 'reasons' are not his true feelings but merely his public alter ego rationalizing his Obama endorsement. Since publically voting for one based on race is social and political suicide I am not convinced of his true feelings.> But if it was all about race, he could have endorsed Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton in previous years, or sticking with the GOP, Alan Keyes in the 2000 primary. He didn't. So I wouldn't put it at "quite possible." Perhaps "barely possible," in the sense that nearly all things are possible.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<<So, RT...you said that a Powell endorsement might make you vote for Obama. Thoughts?>> It might. Can't decide for sure until Election Day though. It would be mighty boring here if I wasn't around to defend McCain/Palin. < we must be the last hold outs -- I admire Colin Powell and his right to vote for who he wants is his right -- I amglad he tried not to sensationalize it ( as others are now doing) and not going out to stump. I wish he was the choice instead of Obama - who I just don't believe is going to do well at this job...( I'm sure that somehow makes me a neo con instead of just an Illinois voter who is unimpressed with the politcal track record and peopleheis tied to ) I would vote for Powell in November - but can't vote for Obama.
Originally Posted By dshyates "but can't vote for Obama." But you can vote for Mav-rickity and the Brain? Whatever.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^^^^^^^ I can vote for McCain-- I have said numerous times I have issues with Palin -but ofcourse unless I am bowing at the feet of Obama,I am going to put up with being blown off completely by comments like yours. Too bad I have stated time and time again the many reasons I haveissue with Obama as president- and basethis on FACTS about how he has performed representing my state, and the fact I findhimtotally unaffected and in some cases if not controlled - highly influenced by some vey bad people here - too bad people like you don't seem to want to hear itand just make snarky commentslike above... I amnot a neocon, I am not a right wing goof, I vote split tickets all the timeeven though Iama registered GOP( was a registered Dem the first 10 years I voted) - but that's not good enough - unless I am willing to overlook all I know about Obama - and makesure I get on board that " let's show W and his group how bad they suck train" and support Obama not matter what, ignore ANYTHING that may be an issue, and proclaim himthe savior of the United States, it's not good enough for some of you. Sorry, I find is increasingly offensive...and save me the comments on hyperbole - yes I know what it is , even though I am a dumb arse GOP supporter. Heck even when X started a thread so that McCain supporters could state why they fetl compelled to support him, many could not resist the Bush bashing and the like in there - the blind allegiance is scary. We( those few left who bother to post anything that is not pro Obama ) get it !. We are not marching with banners of the failures of the Bush administration - we're not stupid. We're also not stupid enough to believe a totally controlled Democratic government is a good thing. I have lived state wise for almost 6 years now under that and our state is a disaster. There is nothing that is not totally screwed up here- and even the staunchest Democratic supporters will tellyou that. Hell Mayor Daley will tell you that. But just dismiss anything we say because of course your beliefs are 100% correct. Well have at it- you are getting your wish in November - I hope you are as happy about the outcome 4 years from now-- I promise you at least some of you will not be.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Trippy, you are about to be on your own to try and keep dialogue open...no one wants to hear anything but the mantra. I am glad we will be able to solve the countries problems by just getting behind one party - the solution is so simple....not sure why we didn't see it before.
Originally Posted By dshyates vbdad55 I defy you to find one positive thing that I have said on these boards about Obama. So you can shove your condescending crap about Obama worship. And the GOP deserves the drumming they are getting, including Mr. 90% Bush. We don't need to recap the disaster the GOP has been for the past 8 years, but its time the bums were thrown out.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Yeah, vbdad55, I respect your opinions and always have, but I just don't see "Obama worship" here like you seem to. GOP bashing sometimes, but not Obama worship. And I'm sure you realize there are millions of Illinoisans who are just as observant and astute as you who will be voting FOR Obama, so simply observing him more closely than us non-Illinoisans isn't quite enough in itself. In fact, I have to say you have become rather cranky lately and not quite your usual well-tempered self; perhaps it's the fact that most of us on WE support Obama, but really; many of your posts have every bit the condescending tone of "if you vote Obama, you've just drunk the koolaid - you can't possibly be voting for him because you favor him on the issues or you think he'd do a good job" as some of the "if you vote McCain you've just drunk the koolaid" posts we see on the other side.
Originally Posted By Mr X "Powell is voting for a traitor because he is himself a traitor. He has changed sides in this war already years ago." True quote from the link in post 24. These people really and truly believe this stuff. The secret service needs to be augmented and assisted by some military units this time around...I'm serious!
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Both candidates come with baggage. Accepting at face value what vbdad says about Obama and the Chicago cronies (and having lived there myself, I know there more than a little truth to it), and McCain and his horrible choice of Palin and subsequent selling of the soul, I have to say Obama's baggage is the lesser of the two evils.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Yeah, these are probably the same people who think Obama is 'Arab'. The internet is a scaaary place sometimes. Even scarier when you realize these are the same people you bump into at the supermarket, on the street or church and no clue they are complete and utter nuts .
Originally Posted By mele <<these are the same people you bump into at the supermarket, on the street or church>> Or sit across from them at Thanksgiving. :-(
Originally Posted By chickendumpling Re vbdad's posts: I hope you don't leave vbdad. I'm still new to WE and I have no idea how any of my posts are being perceived but I hope I haven't been coming across as one who wants only to hear "the mantra" because that isn't the case at all. I agree with the general point your trying to make in post 47 & 48 - blind allegiance is scary; the countries problems won't be solved by one party; the solution is not simple. Those are still things that I'm curious about and would like to discuss (or at least hear others discuss) it would be a shame to lose your voice in the conversation. That said, I have been posting about conservatives leaving the party, abstaining from voting rather than vote for McCain/Palin and conservatives voting for Obama. I haven't intended that as "Pro Obama," I just have been fascinated by the political science aspect of it.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***//Do you think perhaps Powell's comments on MTP were just lame excuses// Not really. Clearly if I had to place a bet I'd go with Powell being honorable as proven by his history. But again none of us truly know his intentions. We can only *assume* on this whole topic.*** Barboy, that could be said about ANY comment made by ANYONE ever. Point is, you say "well, his reasons could be wrong and he could be voting his race". Well, sure. It's possible. Anything is possible. BUT, you look at the reasons he spelled out and they make a heck of a lot of sense. I would even submit that someone on the fence could listen to his reasons and be convinced (inspirational guy, thoughtful, flexible..bad VP, attacks, confusion on the economy). These are all facts on the table, he's just laying them out. So sure, you could argue that Limbaugh COULD be correct, but that's squarely in the realm of pure speculation without a shred of reason behind it. ***I wish he was the choice instead of Obama - who I just don't believe is going to do well at this job...( I'm sure that somehow makes me a neo con instead of just an Illinois voter who is unimpressed with the politcal track record and peopleheis tied to )*** You'll note that none of Powell's comments referred to his track record. He is focused on the inspiration and excitement that Obama is creating NOW. I think it's fair to say that he's got quite the clean slate to jump off from. Maybe you're right and maybe you're wrong about the Chicago scumbag thing, but clearly Powell is impressed by what Obama has done for the nation since his campaign began. I am too. And I appreciate the heck out of the Powell endorsement. ***I would vote for Powell in November - but can't vote for Obama.*** At this point, I think you have just dug in your heels and are being stubborn. For all your talk about Illinois dirty politics and all that, you don't have a problem with McCain and the utter filthy campaign he's run, not to mention someone even more corrupt and dumb in the form of his VP? Doesn't add up. But it also doesn't matter. Obama is in whether you like it or not. You can enjoy your "I told you so's" if and when the Chicago dirtbags start ruining the country (even more) in the next four years (somehow worse than the last 8).
Originally Posted By Mr X ***<<these are the same people you bump into at the supermarket, on the street or church>> Or sit across from them at Thanksgiving. :-(*** lol. One more point to VBDad, I understand your frustration with the Bush comparisons and all that (Dole joked about how he was "seen" with Newt Gingrich more during the campaign than any other time in his life), but I'll be honest here I'm totally over that. My support for Obama has now been fortified 100% completely by McCain's dishonorable campaign itself. He has lowered himself into the gutter and should be ashamed. Not only that, he put the country in danger (yes, DANGER) by choosing Palin, and was absolutely flabbergasted as to how to approach the market crisis. Everything that Powell touched upon, I believe deeply as well. That's not a leader I can believe in. Ever. How he has "earned" anyone's vote is beyond me at this point. Which is sad since I truly believe up until a couple of months ago that he would've made a good president. Much better than Bush at least. I no longer believe anything of the kind. He's an angry, confused old party hack with no honor. I'm glad at least that he has shown us his true colors before getting into the White House. He definitely dug his own grave on this one, can't blame Bush anymore (let's not forget that he was AHEAD of Obama what, 6 weeks ago? he was still Mr 90% Bush then right?). I'll be backing the inspirational, optimistic guy thanks.
Originally Posted By chickendumpling <<he put the country in danger (yes, DANGER) by choosing Palin,>> *Grave* danger?
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Vbdad, One, god, I hope you dont think we are piling it on lol. A lot of posts are aimed at you at the moment and to be fair, 90% of the time if I dont know enough about an issue or do any research to catch up to at least post an opinion I HONESTLY dont say anything. Seriously, if you see a thread here (lately ) and you see zero posts from me, its usually because I dont know enough about the entire issue to post about it---or simply dont care, which is usually a mixture of the two lol. I say this because I dont think I ever responded to all the insidious Illinois/Chicago connections you keep referring to when you cite Obama, so I cant agree or disagree, truth is I simply dont know. So, AS an Obama supporter, I want to say you are wrong about him and that these shady connections you keep alluding isnt going to happen once he gets in the White House--but again I could be 100% wrong and I admit that. And also, I know very little about corruption in Chicago---but its Chicago lol, when was there NOT corruption . So I will say yes, I understand, even if not completely, your hestiancy to trust Obama and an all Democrat led government. I get it I do. I think what bothers me, and I will go out on a film limb here and say others as well is that you sort of use that as an excuse to avoid any positives about Obama and his campaign most of the time. It seems to be a way to tell yourself 'it's okay' not to vote for Obama and that's fine, but you kind extend in subtle ways that we should all be *TERRIFIED* once Jan. 20th rolls around and it gets a little irritating at times. We argue about Obama's work as a lawyer and you talk about a shady guy he worked with once. We talk about a bill he might've passed and here you come with some OTHER shady guy that he supposedly helped out for getting it passed. We mention how Obama wants to do something about education, you then mention how a bunch of shady guys that know THESE shady guys has created worse school system there. I mean, when I read your posts that's how they all come off lol. And again, you are simply citing your experience, we get it, but I just think its funny that Obama is now the epicenter of how all these guys operate, sort of like he's the godfather, everything happens around him although he's never implicated or touched through any of it. you never seem to come out and say that, but it certainly feels implied. I mean, yeah, I can see that happeneing to a DEGREE, but its a little ludicrous (not you) how some people make this guy out to be like he has shady connections in every corner of the city, he's personally ordered killings, tax invasions, money laundry, store robberies and etc. I listen to you and people like this and I'm wondering should I even trust this guy and his evil croonies to even do my taxes for me without me going to jail over it? It just gets all a bit much sometimes. You are saying we dont know the REAL Obama, we get it, we really do. Same thing was said about Clinton back in '92 as well, luckily all his croonies went to jail knowing he would just pardon them anyway lol. I have no idea who Obama will bring to Washington, no clue! All I know is his VP pick is solid to me and it tells me he DOES care about character and integrity in that pick, that's a good sign so far and tells me more of the type of person Obama is vs McCain who picked someone SOLELY because he thought it would help him get votes, nothing more than that. Now, IF Obama is elected and all those people ride into town and Republican Congressmen start dying in freak 'accidents' who coincidently wouldnt pass a bill Obama puts through--you may have a point lol. But, I'm not going to decide on voting for a guy because he knows people who arent all upfront people, NO politician would ever get elected . The people I HAVE seen him with in terms of the campaign are upstanding people and if these people are as bad as you say, trust me, McCain, Hillary and anyone against Obama would have these people all upfront and center. And I know they tried and trying lol, but my point is there is a reason McCain is talking about a guy Obama knew 10 YEARS ago through a educational board (where ALL the terrorist shady deals go down--nice front there lol) and no one in 2008 or 2007, there is simply nothing there to pin Obama HIMSELF to. That's the rub and why everytime I hear the name Rezko, Ayers, ACORN and these things, my mind just sort of wonders off now. NOT because they arent important to bring up, just that its the same thing over and over again and yet no one could actually tell me how does ANY of it makes Obama guilty?? What did *he* actually do to break a law?? What did *he* do to force these people to break a law if they did? Where did *he* motivate or was influenced be any of these crimes or thoughts people keep bringing up?? If people can do more than the six degrees of guilt association I would listen, I really would!!! I dont want a corrupt leader in office anymore than YOU do, the problem is I keep hearing how all these connections make Obama evil and no one seem to say one evil thing Obama has actually DONE??? Do you see *our* point of view on this?? I'm not trying to duck the issue, it just sounds like most of the time people are trying to manipulate an issue or make it bigger than what it is because they found Obama had small ties to these people or situations and THEREFORE, somehow he approved or authorized it and yet, there has not been one person to step and tell us in a single statement how he had a direct impact on anything? There's been not a single investigation with his name on a subpeona list. There is no FBI investigations, no IRS auditing or anything of the sort. Not one person ANYWHERE has actually CALLED an investigation. You would think if this guy is sooo bad, someone would've found just enough preliminary evidence to make an investigation, right? FOX news, for all their moaning about Obama has not come out with a SINGLE report about Obama's illegal ties to anything. They can't even get a witness to tell them that Obama and Ayers had a relationship that went farther than what Obama says it did. And he's been campaigning for 20 months now and nothing in terms of a investigation on anyhing! Hell, with Clinton, at least the Republicans and Ken Star put him through hell with Whitewater lol. Do I think Obama is perfect, nope! Am *I* perfect (DONT ANSWER THAT MR X!!!!) not in the slightest, all I can say is like myself, I think Obama will try to do what's right, that's all I can say. I just don't see him as taking over the White House just to give militant countries guns for shady deals or passing laws that will keep some groups down while advancing others or going to war just to line his buddies pockets with the revenue. I can be 100% wrong about Obama and in 2 years time regret I ever made that vote, but I HONESTLY cant see it. Doesnt mean I will like everything he will do, just means I think Obama will truly do his job in a decent way! After all, you cite all these bad connections to him, but he's been in the Senate for 12 years now and there hasnt been one thing he has done to suggest he has overstepped his bounds even as a Senator---Palin has after only been a governor for two years lol, but whater that's not important to mention is it . Anyway, vote McCain if it truly scares you Obama will bring a new type of gangsta to the White House---or maybe just relocate to Wisconsin---I rarely hear about any back door deals there ;D.
