Originally Posted By dshyates "But there absolutely is a place for a reasonable, honorable conservatism in the spectrum, and I hope they get the party back." Me too.
Originally Posted By mawnck We may have to wait a bit longer for reasonable, honorable conservatism: Tires slashed at an Obama rally in NC: <a href="http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/obama_supporters_tires_slashed.php" target="_blank">http://tpmelectioncentral.talk...shed.php</a> Conservative cartoonist draws Powell as Benedict Arnold in blackface: <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/20/cartoonist-depicts-powell_n_136178.html" target="_blank">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...178.html</a> And the beat goes on ...
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <It's good for me but I know how uncomfortable it must get for the right-of-center folks.< Funny, where I live I view myself as dead center - left of center on some issues ( mainly peoples rights) and right of center on others (mainly financial) But W/E is definitely left of center and yes it does get tiring having to defend every nit. <Yes, there are a couple of people here who have essentially said that, and sometimes they post a lot. Yet there are more here who are voting for Obama for what we see as well-thought-out reasons who also know and respect the fact that others will be voting for McCain for their own well-thought-out reasons. I think you're lumping us all in the same boat, and that's no better than the people who lump all McCain supporters in with yahoos or idiots. That's all I'm saying.< fair enough - however usually when I say this is happening, I get told no it's not- thanks for at least acknowledging.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Powell is such a thoughtful man, I might've even voted for him if he ran for President back in the day.< I know I would have...if I remember right it seemed his wife sort of talked him out of running.... if he was on the ticket today he'd be my choice easily
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Your point of view is well-reasoned and well-respected--by me at least.< thank you - it is appreciated
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <When this election is over, there will be a serious amount of soul-searching in the GOP, win or lose. The thoughtful, intelligent, principled and rational side vs. the red meat "professional wrestling" talk radio side of the party. The screecher's time has past, thank heavens. But there absolutely is a place for a reasonable, honorable conservatism in the spectrum, and I hope they get the party back.< it's what I hope for also....truly
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Funny, where I live I view myself as dead center - left of center on some issues ( mainly peoples rights) and right of center on others (mainly financial)*** You might (probably) disagree with me here, but I also consider MYself to be right of center on things financial. The screwy thing is, though, I believe the "right wing" is not..anymore. They are so wrapped up in their warmongering and "values" junk, they've completely lost focus on what made them "conservatives" in the first place (imo of course). ***But W/E is definitely left of center*** I'd say this is similar to Obama's answer when he was asked why he was "so liberal" (a great answer, I felt). He replied something like "well that's just because I'm fighting against Bush and his failed policies". I think W/E, like the world in general, is pretty tired of cons and neocons and all that stuff in general due to the extreme nature of the past 8 years. I think that if/when Obama gets into the house, you'll see a resurgence of more right wing thinking..particularly when he screws up.
Originally Posted By dshyates vbdad55, I too consider myself a moderate. Fiscally conservative and socially liberal. But I am not a member of either party. I don't like the Dems at all, but I LOATHE the GOP. Not conservatives, but the GOP.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Powell's endorsement was almost exclusively rooted in his disappointment with McCain, his low-road campaign, and the direction of the GOP - not his flag-waving approval of Obama. >> I have some concerns about the direction that the Party has taken in recent years. It has moved more to the Right than I would like to see it, but that's a choice the Party makes. << >> In the case of Mr. McCain, I found that he was a little unsure as to how to deal with the economic problems that we're having. And almost every day there was a different approach to the problem and that concerned me. It's sensing that he didn't have a complete grasp of the economic problems that we had. << And I was also concerned at the selection of Governor Palin. I don't believe she's ready to be President of the United States, which is the job of the Vice President. And so, uh, that raised some question in my mind as to the judgment that Senator McCain made. << >> I also believe that on the Republican side over the last seven weeks, the approach of the Republican Party and Mr. McCain has become narrower and narrower. << >> And I've also been disappointed, frankly, by some of the approaches that Senator McCain has taken recently – or his campaign has – on issues that are not really central to the problems that the American people are worried about. This Bill Ayers situation that's been going on for weeks became something of a central point of the campaign, but Mr. McCain says that he's a watchdog of terrorists. Then why do we keep talking about him? And why do we have these robocalls going on around the country, trying to suggest that because of this very, very limited relationship that Senator Obama has had with Mr. Ayers, somehow Mr. Obama is tainted. What they're trying to connect him to is some kind of terrorist feelings. And I think that's inappropriate. << >> I think this goes too far. And I think it has made the McCain campaign look a little narrow. It's not what the American people are looking for. << >> And the Party has moved even further to the Right. And Governor Palin has indicated a further rightward shift. I would have difficulty with two more conservative appointments to the Supreme Court, but that's what we'd be looking at in a McCain Administration. << >> I'm also troubled by – not what Senator McCain says – but what members of the Party say, and it is permitted to be said: such things as, "Well, you know that Mr. Obama is a Muslim." Well, the correct answer is he is not a Muslim. He's a Christian; has always been a Christian. But the really right answer is, "What if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country?" << So Powell's remarks show more of a dissatisfaction with McCain in particular, and the republican party in general than just an open ended endorsement of Obama. What Powell is highlighting are the disreputable tactics of McCain, his campaign, and the GOP. Now plenty of people will go ahead and vote McCain anyway, even though they know and understand what Powell was saying. They may even agree with him, but will still vote McCain for whatever reasons they may have. But they're rewarding their candidate for taking the low road. They're essentially saying that they understand that McCain has engaged in the basest kind of gutter politics while evading the issues whenever possible, and they don't care. They have no expectations of honor, dignity, integrity or accountability from their candidate. Just like the the last one they voted into office. Why would anyone expect anything different from McCain, given the campaign he's run? Fortunately, this time I think we've got them outnumbered.
Originally Posted By hopemax > I too consider myself a moderate. Fiscally conservative and socially liberal. But I am not a member of either party. I don't like the Dems at all, but I LOATHE the GOP. Not conservatives, but the GOP. < Ditto. But the thing is, I've been doing a little researching, and I think I've decided I am just a conservative. I've been doing more reading about Barry Goldwater, the classical conservative. What I've found is that my so called "socially liberal" positions, are actually part of the conservative philosophy. Limited government, individual freedom. Goldwater himself was pro-choice, his wife was long involved with Planned Parenthood, he was a supporter of gay rights. He opposed the large deficits created by the Reagan administration (I can only imagine the reaction to the Bush administation), supported a flat tax, and was fearful of the growing power of the religious right. It's a shame that the term conservative has become so corrupted from what it was a half century ago.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <You might (probably) disagree with me here, but I also consider MYself to be right of center on things financial.< no,I'd agree with that- we are fairly lock step on most financial threads <The screwy thing is, though, I believe the "right wing" is not..anymore< I think plenty in the party state wise still are - but I admit the spending of this admin baffles me <I think W/E, like the world in general, is pretty tired of cons and neocons and all that stuff in general due to the extreme nature of the past 8 years. I think that if/when Obama gets into the house, you'll see a resurgence of more right wing thinking..particularly when he screws up.< I hope you're right as otherwise you and Iwill likely both be concerned financially in 2 years
Originally Posted By vbdad55 < I don't like the Dems at all, but I LOATHE the GOP. Not conservatives, but the GOP.< If the wording was changed to you hate the far right that had become the mouthpiece of the GOP, I could get on board, but to blanket the party, that's the part that bothersme. I hate some of the far left wing nut jobs also - but I don't hate the Dem party because they are not all that makes up that party
Originally Posted By Mr X I think at this point you really have to "blanket the party", sad to say. When the VP hopefully of the GOP is doing interviews with freakin RUSH LIMBAUGH, the whole danged party has gone south imho.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <What I've found is that my so called "socially liberal" positions, are actually part of the conservative philosophy.< so how do we take our party back Hope ?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I think at this point you really have to "blanket the party", sad to say. < depends what state - location you are talking about - there are little to no far right GOP in my area
Originally Posted By Mr X Thinking of things more on a national level VB, I'm not as familiar with state politics (I'm sure it's very different). On the national stage, I'd have to say that things are pretty much a joke when your top folks are talking to noise radio blowhards. Just a bizarre, sad situation.
Originally Posted By hopemax I don't know about you, but I'm voting for Obama. I can not reward the Republicans with another term after the last 8. I can not reward McCain's pick of a clear religious right neo-con, of Sarah Palin by voting for him. Republicans will not change course, until they get the smack down HARD. I am encouraged that I am making the right decision, by the endorsements of people like Buckley Jr, Colin Powell, and the dozens of newspapers for the first time in years are endorsing Obama. I think we are getting close to a true 3rd party. Only it's going to be Dems, old conservatism, and new conservatism.
Originally Posted By dshyates I usually vote Republican on the local level and democratic on the national. But in the past 8 years the GOP has gone so far out there that they are no longer an option. And yes, vbdad55, there are liberal nutjobs, but they aren't the party leadership. The GOP is now all about gay marriage, and identifying Anti-Americans pagans, and the boogyman. The GOP has lost their freakin' minds.
