Originally Posted By cape cod joe post 41---Beau--STPH has it all over George in being grammatically correct and we all know that takes precedence over his accomplishments as you listed
Originally Posted By Darkbeer <a href="http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=" target="_blank">http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNat ion.asp?Page=</a>\Nation\archive\200603\NAT20060303a.html >>Media, Democrats Exaggerate Warning of Levee Breaches<<
Originally Posted By Darkbeer <a href="http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/K/KATRINA_VIDEO?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-03-02-21-00-56" target="_blank">http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s tories/K/KATRINA_VIDEO?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-03-02-21-00-56</a> >>As Hurricane Katrina loomed over the Gulf Coast, federal and state officials agonized over the threat to levees and lives. Hours after the catastrophic storm hit, Louisiana's governor believed New Orleans' crucial floodwalls were still intact. "We keep getting reports in some places that maybe water is coming over the levees," Gov. Kathleen Blanco said shortly after noon on Aug. 29 - the day the storm hit the Gulf coast. "We heard a report unconfirmed, I think, we have not breached the levee," she said on a video of the day's disaster briefing that was obtained Thursday night by The Associated Press. "I think we have not breached the levee at this time."<<
Originally Posted By Darkbeer <a href="http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2006/cyb20060303.asp#1" target="_blank">http://www.mediaresearch.org/c yberalerts/2006/cyb20060303.asp#1</a> >>MSNBC versus NBC News. MSNBC's David Shuster, at the top of Thursday's Hardball, and NBC's Lisa Myers at the start of the NBC Nightly News, played the identical soundbites from Max Mayfield of the National Hurricane Center warning, on Sunday August 28, about his "grave concern" the levees in New Orleans could be "topped," and a clip of President Bush four days later maintaining that "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." But they used the soundbites to prove opposite assessments. Shuster contended that Mayfield's video "seems to contradict what President Bush said about Katrina" since Mayfield's warning "clearly" means that "the President's team did anticipate the breach." Lisa Myers, however, recognized the meaning of words and how water flowing over a levee, topping it, is not the same thing as a breaching, the collapse of a levee, which is what occurred. Myers explained: "Today Mayfield told NBC News that he warned only that the levees might be topped, not breached, and that on the many conference calls he monitored, 'nobody talked about the possibility of a levee breach or failure until after it happened.'" <<
Originally Posted By bboisvert Kinda reminds me of the whole thing about what the definition of "is" is. Remember that guy who got impeached? The point here is that there was mass confusion the the immediate aftermath. If the proper resources had been in place (and there had been competent federal leadership working with state and local teams) in the days before the storm, things could have been much different.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "Lisa Myers, however, recognized the meaning of words and how water flowing over a levee, topping it, is not the same thing as a breaching, the collapse of a levee, which is what occurred. Myers explained: "Today Mayfield told NBC News that he warned only that the levees might be topped, not breached, and that on the many conference calls he monitored, 'nobody talked about the possibility of a levee breach or failure until after it happened.'" <<" This, of course, is a joke because no matter how you parse it, "topped" or "breached", the levees didn't perform the way they were intended and that possibility was definitely highlighted before it happened.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Nobody thought the levees were going to break. The concern was they were going to overflow. Big difference. I'm sorry, but Only a truly stupid person can blame a man, George W. Bush, for a 300 mile wide cat. 4 hurricane. Exactly how would have Katrina gone down differently if it happened in 1998? I mean besides Clinton biting his lip and the media praising him for his strong leadership. New Orleans has known a direct hit would break the levees since the late 1700's. In fact, it has happened several times before. Blaming Bush for Katrina is the sign of the truly child - like mind.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I've given up argueing this one. Apparently George Bush is responcible for the weather.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Blaming Bush for Katrina is the sign of the truly child - like mind.<< Yet another strawman, which is rather child-like. Is anyone blaming Bush for Katrina? Nope. But you bluster around like someone is. You do know he has already acknowledged there were foul-ups at the federal level, and accepted responsibility for them?
Originally Posted By DlandDug Sadly, the suffering of Katrina victims is just the criticism du jour for those who hate Bush. Cheney's unfortunate accident has been thoroughly chewed over, the Port deal controversy is simmering down, the Patriot Act has been renewed, so this is the only thing of "substance" to keep alive.
Originally Posted By bboisvert ...And the only reason that Katrina has cropped up again is because of Mardi Gras. Otherwise, the "liberal" news-cycle would have never come back to it. Yet the stories of the displaced families that are still being affected are still there, whether they are on the TV or not.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy K2man, Katrina has become the liberal attack point against Bush. So yes, they are blaming him and trying once again to make political points against him all while they have no ideas to offer America. The" no ideas to offer America" that I always bring up will be the reason the dems lose by the way. You heard it here. Are we supposed to really think Kerry would have saved the day regarding Katrina just because he was in VietNam? Bush is to nice to put the hammer down on Nagin and Blanco where most of the blame belongs. That's the Christian in him always coming out while his opponents take cheap shots at him non stop. The mainstream media is running wild with videos, stories, reports and all other kind of " evidence " that bush is responsible for N.O being washed away.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy It's not like Katrina should have been any surprise to the idiots running the city and state. Yet who do the libs blame?? BUSH!!!!!! He LIED!!!!!! People DIED!! Six months before Katrina, in April of 2005, "Popular Science" had a story about what would happen to New Orleans if a Cat 5 hurricane struck the area. It was dead on. "It takes Scott Kiser only a split second to name the one city in the U.S., and probably the world, that would sustain the most catastrophic damage from a category-5 hurricane. "New Orleans," says Kiser, a tropical-cyclone program manager for the National Weather Service." "Although hurricanes of this magnitude slamming directly into New Orleans are extremely rare--occurring perhaps every 500 to 1,000 years--should one come ashore, the resulting storm surge would swell Lake Pontchartrain (a brackish sea adjoining the Gulf of Mexico), overtop the levees, and submerge the city under up to 40 feet of water. Once this happened, the levees would "serve as a bathtub," explains Harley Winer, chief of coastal engineering for the Army Corps's New Orleans District. The water would get trapped between the Mississippi levees and the hurricane-protection levees. "This is a highly improbable event," Winer points out, "but within the realm of possibility." Read the article at: <a href="http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/22040b4511b84010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html" target="_blank">http://www.popsci.com/popsci/s cience/22040b4511b84010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html</a>
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>K2man, Katrina has become the liberal attack point against Bush.<< I said earlier in this thread that the focus at this point should be learning what went wrong on all levels to make sure this doesn't repeat itself in the coming hurricane season.
Originally Posted By bboisvert Here is the timeline... Nagin knew that the local effort would be overwhelmed. He contacts the Governor, Kathleen Blanco for assistance. On Friday, Gov Blanco declares a state of emergency. On Saturday, Gov. Blanco realizes that the state and local efforts will not be enough. She writes a letter to Bush asking to declare a Federal state of emergency. A Federal emergency is declared and "...FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency." Sunday, Katrina is upgraded to a Cat4 then a Cat5. That afternoon, Bush, Chertoff, and Brown are warned of levee failure. Dr. Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center: ‘We were briefing them way before landfall. … It’s not like this was a surprise. We had in the advisories that the levee could be topped.’ Monday Morning, Nagin reports that water is flowing over the levee. Bush eats birthday cake in Arizona with Sen. McCain. At 11am, Brown requests DHS to dispatch 1,000 employees to the region. He gives them two days to arrive. Monday evening, Gov. Blanco again asks for assistance from the federal government since none has arrived. On Tuesday, Chertoff is finally informed that the levees have failed. Bush gives another speech about Iraq, plays guitar with Mark Willis, then returns to Crawford TX. Wednesday, National Guard troops arrive two days after they are requested. Chertoff is extremely pleased with the federal response, Condi takes in a Broadway show, a public health emergency is declared for the Gulf states, and Brown claims surprise over the size of the storm. Thursday, Bush says "I don’t think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." ======== Clearly a failure at the federal level, which Bush has taken responsibility for. Good on him, because whether directly or indirectly, this all happened on his watch. He may not have caused the weather, but he didn't do much of anything to help or mitigate the devastation that followed until it was too late.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <That afternoon, Bush, Chertoff, and Brown are warned of levee failure.> Actually, it looks like it would be more appropriate to say they were warned that levees would be topped. Having some water flow over the top of a levee is not nearly as bad as having a levee breach. <Monday Morning, Nagin reports that water is flowing over the levee.> Don't know who he reported it to, since Gov. Blanco didn't know about it on Monday afternoon. <Monday evening, Gov. Blanco again asks for assistance from the federal government since none has arrived.> I don't believe that's accurate either. My understanding is that the Coast Guard and National Guard were on the scene performing evacuations on Monday.
Originally Posted By DlandDug What a well written and researched time line. Pity so much of it is just plain wrong. Just today we have a tape of Gov. Blanco saying that there is water in the streets, but the levees haven't failed. On Monday afternoon. There was a lot of speculation over just when and where the levees failed. Hindsight is certainly 20/20.
Originally Posted By DlandDug The levee warnings were, further, based on a hit of the city. When Katrina passed to the east, everyone was busy hugging themselves with joy that the city had been spared. It was only after water began filling up the streets that it was realized that the worst had happened. The mystery to me is that Bush (who was busy elsewhere eating birthday cake, playing the guitar, and kicking back on the ranch) should have had better information that the Governor or Mayor, who ostensibly were a little closer to the action. I guess to make that leap requires either some sort of special knowledge, or a visceral dislike of the administration.
Originally Posted By bboisvert <<<That afternoon, Bush, Chertoff, and Brown are warned of levee failure.> Actually, it looks like it would be more appropriate to say they were warned that levees would be topped. Having some water flow over the top of a levee is not nearly as bad as having a levee breach.>> -->But we can probably dispense with the finer points of the English language here. The point that he was trying to make was that the levee system was going to fail. ====== <<<Monday Morning, Nagin reports that water is flowing over the levee.> Don't know who he reported it to, since Gov. Blanco didn't know about it on Monday afternoon.>> -->He made at least one report on the Today Show although he may have reported it to the governor. Even *IF* she had not been briefed about that, it would seem that she was already doing all that she could so this news would not have been unexpected to her. ====== <<<Monday evening, Gov. Blanco again asks for assistance from the federal government since none has arrived.> I don't believe that's accurate either. My understanding is that the Coast Guard and National Guard were on the scene performing evacuations on Monday.>> -->From <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9287434/site/newsweek/page/3/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/92 87434/site/newsweek/page/3/</a> At about 8 p.m., she spoke to Bush. "Mr. President," she said, "we need your help. We need everything you've got." I'll retreat from the "none" statement slightly and meet you halfway. Let's call it minimal. Apparently whatever help that had been sent was clearly not enough. And given the fact that she had sent the request two days earlier, there should have been more already inplace.
