Originally Posted By dshyates Well we are definitely headed into a recession now, and the Dems just took over. So this one goes to the Republicans.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper It is ok if we tap OTHER people's oil...and affect their environment. Far be it for us to affect our own.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan So, if President Bush were to make a speech saying "Folks, we're in a recession. It's gonna be a bad one, I think. I wish I could point to something rosy in the economy, but it's all bad." what would people say? They'd come unglued, that's what. Look, I think this administration has been a disaster. But if the president starts being gloomy about the economy, it'd only make things that much worse. What else can he say but it's a slowdown, there's a brighter tomorrow? The alternative would to be to completely level with people. If people acted like adults and could handle the truth, that'd be a great thing. Unfortunately, people get a bit hysterical when it comes to the economy and there is an enormous psychological quotient involved in driving the economy in a positive or negative direction. The wrong word from the president and the stock market takes a major dip, and along with it go many people's 401K bucks.
Originally Posted By DAR Well if nothing else I'm contributing to the economy. I'm having my roof redone and doing my kitchen this summer. So I'll be making trips to the Home Depot.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Man, I hear ya. I'm always spending money fixing the house or cars. DAR AND I CAN'T SAVE THE ECONOMY ALONE, PEOPLE!!! A LITTLE HELP, HUH???
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Tap it! This earth was made for Man*** Damn. See, this is the part where I really think big religion is a negative force.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***>> This earth was made for Man << A dangerous notion. I'd rather think of our planet as being "on loan" to this generation. Soon enough our turn will be up and it will pass to following generations.*** Absolutely Gadzuux. Even if you buy into the "Earth was made for man" thing, which I don't, even so wouldn't it be for ALL man? What would god think of us turning the planet into a wasteland for future generations to try and clean up!?
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<Tap it! This earth was made for Man...sure, we need to protect our earth, but right now Mankind, and our country, needs more sources of oil.>> Since I know you are LDS josh, I challenge you to study the works of Joseph Fielding Smith. For some reason most Mormons tend to believe that the Earth is somehow theirs to exploit however they want. It’s one reason I don’t practice the religion anymore. However, Joseph Fielding Smith, if I recall correctly, taught that simply because humans want a certain resource, it does not mean that we have the carte blanche justification to take it. Being good stewards of the Earth means that we care for and do what is best for all creatures in God’s garden. If our desire for oil means that we put at risk God’s creatures, all of whom He holds dear, we are obligated to take the most conservative path and seek for alternatives. Otherwise, we will be held liable and judged by God according to our failure to tend his garden as he would have, a la the Garden of Eden. The love of money is no excuse for exploiting and harming HIS Earth. If mankind needs a source of energy, it needs to find them in ways which do not harm God’s masterpieces. Oil is not a necessity, it’s a desire. We could find alternatives, but we choose not to. There is a difference between “dominion,†and “domination.†God has dominion; but Hitler and Stalin practiced domination. It seems Mankind has chosen to take the later route. For shame. I’ll have to remember what book this was in, it might have been in his collected works but I’m not sure. I read it while on my mission over a decade ago.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo "For some reason most Mormons tend to believe that the Earth is somehow theirs to exploit however they want. It’s one reason I don’t practice the religion anymore." I forgot to add: But LDS doctrine sometimes gets ignored by GOP apologists. The doctrine is ignored or forced to conform to the political bent of its members. There are several examples of this, this being one of them.
Originally Posted By dshyates ***>> This earth was made for Man << Some people think we are parasitic, like mold. And will eventually kill the host.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 ***Tap it! This earth was made for Man***<< Wow.....Just wow.....they teach you that in Bible School? Very dangerous to think we can do whatever we want to earth because it's ours...Earth is not a toy to play with as we so desire...
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Very dangerous to think we can do whatever we want to earth because it's ours...Earth is not a toy to play with as we so desire...*** Very dangerous indeed. Why do I get the feeling this mindset stems from a notion that the planet isn't going to be around much longer anyway? Yikes.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 Welcome to modern LDS logic....<< That religion is very flawed then if that is the logic behind the religion.... not even christians go that far in their reasoning.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <The earth is not an inexhaustible resource to be exploited and plundered for profit.> I agree with that.
Originally Posted By utahjosh < For some reason most Mormons tend to believe that the Earth is somehow theirs to exploit however they want.> Any good Mormon believes that God created the Earth as a place for mankind to learn and grow. He also gave us the charge to till the earth, grow food, and generally TAKE CARE OF IT. Drilling in Alaska is not going to destroy the whole earth, people.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Wow, I'm being attacked and made out to look like a greedy, uncaring person who just wants to destroy the planet as long as I get my toys out of it. You all took my comments WAY too far. I believe that we need to take care of the earth. I believe we are responsible to use it wisely. I think the current situation of oil and the way mankind uses energy right now NEEDS TO CHANGE. I just said that we need more oil right now, for the short term, to protect Amercia's economy, millions of people's well being, etc. I am all for alternative sources of energy, for now and especially the long term. I'm also for using what we can right now for the good of our country in the short term
Originally Posted By plpeters70 "Drilling in Alaska is not going to destroy the whole earth, people." But it will hurt the unique ecosystem that exists there - and all so that we can put off actually coming up with a REAL solution to our energy problems by a few more years. It's ridiculous short term thinking taken to the extreme. We don't need to drill up Alaska to solve our energy problems, but it will certainly make the oil men currently in charge of the USA that much richer if we do.
