Originally Posted By DouglasDubh If you can name a country where veteran care is better, than obviously we do have the best veteran care.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Also, I work with the VA hospital in Roseburg Oregona and the people I know there don't blame the president for anything.
Originally Posted By gadzuux How about charging the wounded veteran's for their food while they're in the hospital. Have we ever done that before? I suspect not. For that matter, it was also bush who sought to reduce soldier's "danger" pay, as well as their "away from home" pay (not sure of the exact terminology), forcing hardships - not on the soldiers themvelves - but on their spouses and children back at home. That he would do this is one thing, but then to have the gall to use veteran's day for a speech that slams his opponents while politically scoring points for himself as a "supporter of the troops". There's your problem right there.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Yes, let's: a proposed "1.8% increase in veterans' medical care funding" is not a cut.> Considering that the cost of health care is rising much, MUCH faster than that - actually it is. Unless that's 1.8% over and above the rise in the cost of health care. I don't believe it is. If it's not, the bottom line is that X-dollars plus 1.8% will buy less health care for our veterans than it used to. My brother-in-law is career Navy and he sees what has happened in the last few years. Luckily, he did not sustain any serious injury like so many of our guys did. But he knows how long it takes him just to see a doctor. Obviously, if you have a serious injury, it just becomes that much more critical.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Also, I work with the VA hospital in Roseburg Oregona and the people I know there don't blame the president for anything. >>> So do they not have any of the almost 20% of the military that voted against Bush last year? I think it's accepted that both in general and especially in a time of war, that soldiers that don't support their Commander in Chief, the military direction of the country, and so on are well advised to keep their mouths shut, and I think that's exactly what is happening. Since I would imagine that nowhere near 1 in 5 soldiers that you've spoken to or read blogs of oppose the Iraq war, you must be speaking to some that are keeping their mouths shut. And it would seem to me that a soldier's displeasure would have to be quite strong in order to actually vote against the Commander in Chief.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <How about charging the wounded veteran's for their food while they're in the hospital. Have we ever done that before? I suspect not.> I don't know, and I don't have the time to look for exculpatory evidence right now, but I suspect it's out there, although you'd probably never read it on Salon.com.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<And it would seem to me that a soldier's displeasure would have to be quite strong in order to actually vote against the Commander in Chief.>> Superdry, what part of " The military backs Bush and they think liberals are a disgrace " don't you get? You think 20% is a figure to be proud of? 1 in 5? Chances are its more like 1 in 8. The people ( the troops ) who are on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan are proud of the mission and actually understand the war on terror unlike the totally clueless and shameless left who can only lie about Bush lying.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy I actually am convinced the liberals are border line, if not OVER the line treasonous about now. Don't think America isn't going to figure it out very soon either. Many already have. Dissent may be treason if it gives aid and comfort to the enemy...America and American troops are hurt because of it. The Liberals never acknowledged this in Vietnam or Central America but it is a fact. You can dissent against increase taxes, abortion and any other domestic issues all you want but do not make the enemy think we are divided and if they just kill more of us then we give up like we did in Vietnam. We need to be united because we are at war and our troops are in harm's Way. This is something the Liberals have a very difficult time understanding. They are more concerned about making Bush look bad than they are concerned about winning the War on Terror and returning Iraq to a state with tons of oil money and free people. Most Conservatives did not support Clinton's dirty little wars in Somalia and Bosnia but did not dissent once troops were deployed. It is because Conservatives loved America more than they hated Clinton. The Democrats have lied, cheated and stole in order to make Bush look bad and they have hurt America in the process. But do they care or even understand what is actually going on?? Liberals were wrong about Vietnam and Central America. They are wrong about the War on Terror and Iraq. Liberals do not get a free pass on hurting America in the name of Free Speech. They are despicable and immoral for giving aid and comfort to the Insurgents in Iraq just like they were wrong to aid and comfort the Communist murders in Central America and Vietnam. America made the decision to continue the war in Iraq with the reelection of Bush in 2004! Don't send a message to the Iraqi insurgents that if they can just inflict more causalities and fight until the next election then the Democrats will give them the victory that they could not win on the battlefield. Bush is doing good to expose the Democrats for being the treasonous scumbags that they are. The Democrats are much more concerned with gaining power so they can pay off their special interest groups like the Unions and the Trial Lawyers than they are about doing the right thing for America. Go Bush!!!
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Superdry, what part of " The military backs Bush and they think liberals are a disgrace " don't you get? You think 20% is a figure to be proud of? 1 in 5? Chances are its more like 1 in 8. >>> I started with your number of "over 80% voted for Bush." I took it at face value and didn't look into it further, just for sake of conversation in this thread. The flip side of that is that "almost 20% voted against Bush" and that's almost 1 in 5. If it really is 1 in 8, then that would mean that 87.5% voted for Bush, and I'm certain that if that was the figure, you would have reported it as "almost 90%" instead of "more than 80%." So I'm going to stick with the "1 in 5 voted against Bush" figure as a derivative of what you said. 80%+ for Bush sounds like a large number, and it is. But it's not really surprising when you consider that the military naturally awakens patriotic instincts, and more importantly that we have an all-volunteer military (ignoring for the moment that certain soldiers are not being allowed to leave when they were told they could). Of course people that volunteer for military duty, especially those that have done so in the past 4 years in time of war, are going to tend to vote for the Commander in Chief, especially one that has a stance like Bush does. No surprise there. The only point I was trying to make is that with nearly 1 in 5 voting against him, there is far more dissent than you lead us to believe.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Bush is doing good to expose the Democrats for being the treasonous scumbags that they are. >>> Hmmm... This almost certainly violates the Community Standards, but I'm not going to turn ya in. As someone else pointed out, the President's speech on Friday could have come out of a time machine from March 2003 in many respects. I notice that in your post #48 you spend almost no time supporting what you believe to be right, but almost all your time knocking what the "liberals" or the Democrats are saying. And, you use the tried-and-true method of attacking the patriotism of your opponent. Once again we're back at a situation where we are waging a war to spread freedom and democracy (actually, the argument seems to have switched once again in the last week back to WMD), but anyone that exercizes it here at home is "treasonous." Fortunately, more and more Americans are coming to see this technique for what it really is.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>Also, I work with the VA hospital in Roseburg Oregona and the people I know there don't blame the president for anything.<< My wife did her internship at the VA in Seattle. One of our friends is in charge of the department at the VA that she worked for. They have plenty to blame Bush for, but they've seen their budget cut even though they are getting more and more patients. They've had to turn people away from treatment because their funding is going down.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Why would it be surprising to see that people who give up their civil liberties for a life of authoritarian rule, rigid discipline, and s culture deeply divided by class support Bush by 80%?
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>I notice that in your post #48 you spend almost no time supporting what you believe to be right, but almost all your time knocking what the "liberals" or the Democrats are saying.<< SuperDry, that's his schtick. Ask him to support what he's saying, and he can't. But he keeps saying it anyway, even after he's been proven wrong time and time again.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<Why would it be surprising to see that people who give up their civil liberties for a life of authoritarian rule, rigid discipline, and s culture deeply divided by class support Bush by 80%?>> I prefer to say they volunteered to defend the country and I am proud of them. But you can go with your example if you want.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>SuperDry, that's his schtick. Ask him to support what he's saying, and he can't. But he keeps saying it anyway, even after he's been proven wrong time and time again.<< It's also the tactic used by Sean Hannity. Just keep telling the lie over and over even after its been refuted.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Tell me one lie I have said on this thread. You seem to be confusing me with what the dems are doing and that is that they cream Bush LIED so much that people start to believe it. problem is, Bush is fighting back and the party and free shots at him are over.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer <<Tell me one lie I have said on this thread.<< Every time you claim that all liberals hold the same position, you are lying because you know that isn't true.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh I don't see where Beaumandy used the words "all liberals" in his post.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy That's a lie??? Fine, MOST democrats and liberals hold the same position. Howard Dean, the leader of the democrats went on Meet the Press and flat out said Bush lied and he is corrupt yesterday. The LEADER of the dem party said this during a war when we have troops in harms way!
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>I don't see where Beaumandy used the words "all liberals" in his post.<< You're funny.
