Originally Posted By Beaumandy Tom, I respect your care for the infants. Nobody in America wants to hurt a child, but making them Americans by illegal means is how California and Arizona are having hospitals and entire states going broke.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>Nobody in America wants to hurt a child, but making them Americans by illegal means is how California and Arizona are having hospitals and entire states going broke.<< They are not Americans by illegal means, they are born on US soil, thus citizens under the supreme law of the land. You know, that meaningless document that you would use as toilet paper...the Constitution.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy << For some reason, the Right is always about rolling up the window and turning up the radio.>> cmpaley, the Right are the people trying to FIX the problem. Sealing the border, changing the laws are ideas coming from the right. The libs are the ones pretending that nothing is wrong and are simply rolling up the windows when the engine is on fire and their Mickey antenna topper is missing.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<That's what I don't get. Rabid-right wingers LOVE to talk about how we're better than everywhere else and all that YET they compare us to other countries when it comes to these kinds of things. Talk out of both sides of the mouth much?>> Everything I learned about politics I learned from members of the Catholic Church. You know the same peoplelike Senator John Kerry and Senator Kennedy who every weekend accept the eucharist but also believe in abortion. Talk about speaking out of both sides of their mouths.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer <<They are American citizens, Beau. That means something.>> >It means they can spunge off of everyone else.< It also means that they are eligible to be president one day. And that they can contribute to their communities, just like the rest of us. And they can pay taxes and volunteer to serve in our armed forces. They can even die in some foreign field to protect our freedoms. I'd rather see how they can contribute to our society rather than assuming they will be a drain on it, but that just comes with the territory of our political ideologies.
Originally Posted By cmpaley Um...no. You need to turn off the radio and start looking the primary sources. There are SEVERAL bills winding their way throug Congress. The RABID-right is proposing for the police-state, enforcement-only approach (roll up the window to keep the SOUND out). More reasonable people are actually proposing a bipartisan holistic approach that will actually deal with the problem in on a larger scale (actually finding the source of the sound and repairing it).
Originally Posted By Beaumandy << They are not Americans by illegal means, they are born on US soil, thus citizens under the supreme law of the land. >> So it's OK that a person from Mexico breaks into the country ILLEGALLY so they can have a child that will be an "American" and for a bonus, the law breaking illegal parent gets to stay because they are the parent of this new " American ". That's OK with you?? You want people to vote for your guys with this thinking?
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<More reasonable people are actually proposing a bipartisan holistic approach that will actually deal with the problem in on a larger scale (actually finding the source of the sound and repairing it).>> Somehow I think the punchline is going to include the oversight of the United Nations in this one... waiting... waiting...
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>Everything I learned about politics I learned from members of the Catholic Church. You know the same peoplelike Senator John Kerry and Senator Kennedy who every weekend accept the eucharist but also believe in abortion. Talk about speaking out of both sides of their mouths.<< Pro-abortion politicians are under an automatic excommunication. By receiving the Eucharist in such an unworthy manner, they are "eating and drinking damnation on themselves." That's the official teaching of the Church and that's what I go by.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >><<More reasonable people are actually proposing a bipartisan holistic approach that will actually deal with the problem in on a larger scale (actually finding the source of the sound and repairing it).>> Somehow I think the punchline is going to include the oversight of the United Nations in this one... waiting... waiting...<< Google the following: The Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act of 2005
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Tom, thats all great if these kids were born to LEGAL parents. But their parents crossed into this country and are criminals as far as I am concerend. We DO need to get a plan where they can comne here easier to work or to become American citizens. I think this is what Bush is trying to figure out. Are you for an amnesty program? My man Reagan was at one point. DOH!!
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<That's OK with you?? You want people to vote for your guys with this thinking?>> Certainly your not expecting a RATIONAL idea from the Dem camp? With all this holistic solution mumbo jumbo. What is the world does someone from California possibly know whats best for the good people of Georgia? Get REAL!!!!
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<By receiving the Eucharist in such an unworthy manner, they are "eating and drinking damnation on themselves." That's the official teaching of the Church and that's what I go by.>> Yea yea yea.... save it for the Vatican.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom If I could delete that post I would. I don't want to stoop to extremely low things on this board. Can we just be a little more careful when we start throwing about the "talking out of bothsides of their mouths" brush? cmpaley I appoligize for any hint of a personal attack.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan The costs associated with caring for illegal immigration is largely responsible for the budget mess California is in. It's simply staggering, and it simply can't go on forever. The amount of our state's budget deficit is, no surprise, just about equal to what we are spending on educating, feeding and providing free health care services to illegal immigrants. I'm glad someone at the Federal level, President Bush, is at least discussing the matter at long last. His plan appears to be one attempting a compromise solution, and I applaud him for it. It may not be the ideal plan for either side in this issue, but it's a start at least. From a national security and economic standpoint, it's essential that a nation be in control of its borders. That's reasonable, I think, but it'll probably have me branded xenophobic, racist or fascist within a few posts. It makes me weary having to even say the obvious, but I will anyway to head off any snipey posts: I am all for people coming here, legally, to pursue the American dream and enjoy all the benefits of liberty and contribute to our country's economy, culture and creativity.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<The costs associated with caring for illegal immigration is largely responsible for the budget mess California is in.>> Yes <<I'm glad someone at the Federal level, President Bush, is at least discussing the matter at long last. His plan appears to be one attempting a compromise solution, and I applaud him for it. It may not be the ideal plan for either side in this issue, but it's a start at least.>> Yes <<From a national security and economic standpoint, it's essential that a nation be in control of its borders.>> Yes <<That's reasonable, I think, but it'll probably have me branded xenophobic, racist or fascist within a few posts.>> Not by anyone who is having an honest debate.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>So it's OK that a person from Mexico breaks into the country ILLEGALLY so they can have a child that will be an "American" and for a bonus, the law breaking illegal parent gets to stay because they are the parent of this new " American ".<< Until a constitutional amendment is passed that changes the requirements for citizenship, the newborn will be an American. No less American than you, Beau. He or she will have the same rights and privileges that you do. That means he or she can't be deported and can't have his or her citizenship revoked. Do we deport the parents while letting the citizen baby stay? That's insane. Do we deport the parents and the baby, disregarding the baby's rights as an American citizen? That's not what this country is all about. I give Bush credit for trying to find a workable solution that doesn't treat babies as criminals, and that doesn't split up families.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>Are you for an amnesty program?<< I wouldn't grant citizenship, but I would grant green cards to legalize their presence. Once they are officially here, they can be taxed and they can be monitored. They should still go through the steps needed for naturilization if they choose to become citizens.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>The amount of our state's budget deficit is, no surprise, just about equal to what we are spending on educating, feeding and providing free health care services to illegal immigrants.<< Give them green cards. Tax them.
