Originally Posted By fkurucz >>You weren't called stupid in post 4. (Not that I believe anyone should be calling anyone stupid).<< You are correct vb. Perhaps Beau does have a problem with reading comprehension, or is disingeneous.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <>>GM is stuck with stone age pension plans>> FWIW, Toyota's Japanese workers also get pensions< so Toyota is also living in Bedrock and employing fred Flinstone -- imagine that. And yet they are surviving and doing well ? hmmmm.. could it be GM is throwing out pensions and laying off 50,000 workers because the uber rich executives there don't know how to run a business as opposed to reneging on pensions is just good sense ? That can't be as it's those pensions bankrupting these companies. We have that on good authority.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <If it makes you feel superior making it personal with people by utilizing "sarcasm," you are just as deluded as I thought.> I don't make it personal. I sometimes respond when others do.
Originally Posted By bboisvert Could it be that Toyota is actually making cars that people want? Wouldn't it be awesome if the US companies could do that? Gm and Ford are hemmoraging because they are being whipped by the Japanese in quality. That's not the fault of the average Joe building the cars. It's not because of unions, or pensions, or health care costs, or any other shiny object meant to divert your gaze. It's because the people know what they want in a car, and GM and Ford don't have what they want. But yet some would continue to blame the victims, the American auto worker. If Ford/GM would design a moderately priced car that had a warranty and mileage that the American consumer desires, they could hand the Japanese carmakers their lunch every day of the week. I've said it before, if the Toyota Camry was really a Ford Camry, we wouldn't be seeing these layoffs. This is about the US auto companies catering to big oil. Since their profits are in the tank, the only way they can see to recover is to stick it to their employees. Does anyone really believe that they will make better cars if the workers have no pensions? Do they really think that by laying off 80,000 workers that they will be able to make and sell a product that people will buy?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Could it be that Toyota is actually making cars that people want? Wouldn't it be awesome if the US companies could do that? < your right on both counts -- that was the point of my post...
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA What would a meeting with President Bush accomplish? The President's going to say 'Get out there and make a good car' and fire them up? Bill Ford Jr. just stepped down as president of his family's Ford Motor Company. What would the President have to offer? Maybe President Bush could meet with me and help me with my business... ???
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>so Toyota is also living in Bedrock and employing fred Flinstone -- imagine that. And yet they are surviving and doing well ? hmmmm..<< Just a disclaimer, only in Japan. In the good ol' USA they do what the rest of the herd does.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <So, in other words, "He did it, so I can, too."> Bad behavior does not excuse bad behavior. If I have occasionally stooped to being snarky, then I was wrong. I don't belive I have ever called someone stupid, however, or a jerk, as others have.
Originally Posted By jonvn I think the only thing the president could do would be to introduce legislation that would increase tariffs on imported cars. The problem with that is that many of the "foreign" cars are actually made in this country now. GM and Ford need to pull their heads out of their rear ends and make cars that are reliable and efficient and styled nicely. If they did that, I'd buy nothing else.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "GM and Ford need to pull their heads out of their rear ends and make cars that are reliable and efficient and styled nicely." A year ago January my wife and I were all set to buy a GMC Envoy for her and a Ford F-150 for me. My wife had a GMC Jimmy for years, but GMC saw fit to replace it with the larger, more expensive Envoy. My wife didn't like it as she found it hard to maneuver, drive, park, see out of the back, etc. I had another Ford pickup prior to looking at the F-150. As soon as I got inside, I hated it. The inside design was horrible, and the styling on the outside was re-designed to make it look like a long box on wheels. No curves, all severe lines, butt ugly. Instead, my wife got a Toyota Highlander and I got a Toyota Tundra. GMC and Ford simply had nothing to offer us.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Kinda like when Homer designed the Homermobile on the Simpsons -- who does Ford and GM have doing their design research ? I grew up a GM guy and had more than my share of Z28's Trans Am's and Corvettes, and we always had a GM 'family' car' also -- but about 10 years ago I had had it....lousy designs / cheap materials, quality issues, and dealerships that treat you like crap, take your pick -- haven't had one since and dont envision on in the future. I have had 3 Jeeps in the last 10 years ( to go along with the bimmers and toyotas ) - and really have no issue with them... Fords puts out a new Mustang that from a distance looks nice, but inside contains materials that look like Kia threw them away...awful. Corvette Z06 convertible -- nice car -- $72,000 ? -- who's kidding who ? I am actually thinking of selling my 1969 Z28 - toy for a new toy, the new Dodge Challenger 2008 ( or 09) when it comes out -- but if it comes out and dealers are charging $10K over list like they did with the Prowlers and Vipers -- they can keep it.
