Originally Posted By fkurucz <<obviously you are an economy class baby; need to become a frequent flyer and soon enough you'll be freeloading in First and Business Class>> A time honored formula for failure is to have contempt for your customers. <<You know what bothers me most? People B*** and moan when the airlines raise ticket prices by $5 each way, but do not complain to Disney when the passport prices continue to go up like... yearly now?>> I have never known anyone who does that. Maybe if the fare is 100% higher than last year, but for $5? <<And tell me, being in a loaded van for 20+ hrs with screaming children in the backseat driving from Chicago to Orlando NOT a miserable experience?>> FWIW I have never found road trips to be miserable, just slow. Of course, for some families spending $1500 on airfares is a show stopper, so I would leave them out of the equation.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Even when you^^^ take in concideration how much a mini van will drain you out in fuel charges for such long drives?? >>Sorry, I travel cross-country dozens of times a year, have plenty of frequent flyer miles. It's still miserable.<< Then if that is the case, why do you do it then? Maybe you should stick with Amtrak if that is the case. But I suspect that if you indeed do air traveling that often, it must be your employer paying for it and not you out of your own pocket. Free miles should only get you so much (like a free seat at best) which should be given to the paying (non-FF) customer first and foremost before being given for free to someone who has some phoney status on a miles program.. That is the frustration all airline employees feel. How are airlines supposed to offer better service when the flying public is underpaying for the service and getting a lot of free tickets and upgrades with their frequent flyers miles, which I am sure you know quite well how to take advantage of? Do you see the Gas companies giving away free gas just because you are a dedicated shopper at any of the brands? Do you see WDW giving you a free 1-day ticket good for use on your next visit if you buy a 5+ days passport? Do you see WDW giving you a free night at one of the hotels just because you paid for 4? NO. So that pretty much invalidates your complaints about air travel in my book. Airline *management* feels you are getting what you're paying for. So enjoy the misery you seem to put up with so frequently. But don't do the complaining to me, the front line employee. >>A time honored formula for failure is to have contempt for your customers.<< Same old Hogwash principle! Can you please be more original? Most airline employees have contempt for their employers simply because of the treatment they get from management and the very low paychecks they get, especially when we put our lives on the line on every flight we get off the ground. Trust me, we sympathize quite A LOT with the pain the customers feel because we know how much the airline management has taken away from the service, while the airline management continues to enrich themselves with undeserving bonuses.. while those of us delivering the "service" (or what's left of it) have to constantly apologize for the lack of things management has taken away from you the customer, such as hot meals, magazines, pillows, play sets for kids etc etc. Without such tools, we can't offer the service you deserve to get. But the allure of low fares and customers who look for those are just as guilty because by patronizing any particular cheap low-frills carrier, you are also sending management the message that "it is OK" to be treated badly and miserable. Trust me, it's no piece of cake for underpaid workers to hear you complain about it since we do complain to management for their lack of customer service as well. NO flight crew member wants to offer you a bad flying experience on purpose. Trust me on that, as nothing would make me happier than to offer my customers a service they can truly enjoy, legroom they can be comfortable in, and quality that can make me proud to be an airline crew member and take pride on the company I work for, but as long as the likes of you keep placing the likes of Southwest Airlines at the top spot for best Customer service satisfaction, then improvements to the overall experience won't come to happen. So you are pointing the finger at the wrong employees, and frankly while doing so, alinating the only friend you've got in your airline experience: The front line crew. It's no piece of cake for the front line employees either I'll have you know. But the point of all this is to illustrate how many people coming to Orlando are willing to pay high prices to visit WDW (due to higher admission media and on fuel by driving for days to get here from the midwest and northeast), which to me remains the one Disney resorts that only delivers quantity over quality that does NOT match the $71 daily. Yet, airline management feel they have to consistenly provide low fares to keep customers happy, when the service is indeed quite underpriced by today's standards, which is the reason why (as goofyguy mentioned) it's a miserable experience all around.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Sorry, I travel cross-country dozens of times a year, have plenty of frequent flyer miles. It's still miserable.>> Hmm ... I do the same. Plus a few internationals as well. Some in First/Business, some in coach. I actually enjoy flying. Well, except for the fact we have no rights at an airport due to a Prez who couldn't find evildoers if he walked into Haliburton or ExxonMobil HQ ... ... so I'm wondering ... maybe it's just you?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<A time honored formula for failure is to have contempt for your customers. >> You've obviously never met a Disney exec.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Even when you^^^ take in concideration how much a mini van will drain you out in fuel charges for such long drives??>> Not even close to $1500. And if you are staying off property you will really need a car, so add a rental car to the airfare. <<Same old Hogwash principle!>> NO!! If someone insists on treating me like crap, I will take my business elsewhere (which is why I refuse to shop at Home Depot). <<while those of us delivering the "service" (or what's left of it) have to constantly apologize for the lack of things management has taken away from you the customer, such as hot meals, magazines, pillows, play sets for kids etc etc>> You guys just don't get it. Its the sneering attitude that's the turn off. <<NO flight crew member wants to offer you a bad flying experience on purpose.>> I don't know about that. I have been on flights where it was getting to the point where I was expecting the entire crew to give us passengers the finger. What I do know is that you have repeatedly in the past called your frequent fliers (in other word your repeat customers) "freeloaders" because they are awarded free upgrades as a reward for their loyalty. My father in law (a European) used to travel frequently across the pond on business. He and his colleagues avoided US carriers like the plague because of the bad attitudes shown by the crews (in his own words: "They treat you like dirt"). So customers can tell when you feel contempt towards them.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<You've obviously never met a Disney exec.>> Do you think that Walt would have ever got Disneyland off the ground had he felt contempt towards his potential customers? Wasn't he the one who decided that customers should be treated as guests?
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Well that was the point Spirit tried to illustrate. Things have changed for the worst since Walt died.. >>NO!! If someone insists on treating me like crap, I will take my business elsewhere (which is why I refuse to shop at Home Depot).<< I would love to believe you but can't. You will put up with bad service over and over if the price (or the freeloading award) is right.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Do you think that Walt would have ever got Disneyland off the ground had he felt contempt towards his potential customers?>> How many of today's Disney execs do you believe even remotely care what Walt would do? I've stared contempt square in the face, and it is very ugly even if it's coming from someone wearing a Mickey nametag.
Originally Posted By BrooklynsMom <<Universal 7 day hopper pass $87 Busch/Sea World hopper pass with free shuttle between Orlando and Tampa $87 Disney 7 day hopper $217 nuff said.>> A question: How many parks does Universal have? I thought only 2. But I have never been. So to me it seems a 7 day park hopper to go to TWO parks for $87.00 and a 7 day park hopper to go to FOUR parks for $217 doesn't really seem like too much of a rip off. So please tell me, how many parks are there at universal that you would need 7 days there and still continue to be seeing new things? Thanks!
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<I would love to believe you but can't. You will put up with bad service over and over if the price (or the freeloading award) is right.>> But what if there is a competitor that offers comparable prices but better service? Ever wonder why Lowes is eating Home Depot's lunch?
Originally Posted By fkurucz And I'm not asking for keister kissing, all I ask is that the service be pleasant.
Originally Posted By a1stav "A question: How many parks does Universal have? I thought only 2. But I have never been. So to me it seems a 7 day park hopper to go to TWO parks for $87.00 and a 7 day park hopper to go to FOUR parks for $217 doesn't really seem like too much of a rip off. So please tell me, how many parks are there at universal that you would need 7 days there and still continue to be seeing new things? Thanks! " I made a couple of mistakes in my original post. Universal 7 day hopper $87 two parks Busch/Seaworld 7 day hopper $85 two parks (including free shuttle between Orlando and Tampa) Disney 7 day NON-hopper $219 four parks Disney 7 day Hopper $264 four parks $87 Uni plus $85 Busch = $172 four parks hopper $219 Disney four parks non-hopper $264 Disney four parks hopper a difference of $47 and $92 respectively. A significant difference, and with Disney cutting quality, I feel about an equivalent product.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<Huh? They increased ticket prices 4 dollars. For a family of six, that means a trip to Disney World for a day will cost you an extra $24. $24 is going to make or break you?<< while it isn't going to break me that's not the extent of the increases. I just returned and unfortunately due to conflicts in schedules I was not able to get the 3 10 day hoppers I wanted until I arrived Sunday - and got hit with with the increases that included an increase of $25 per 10 day hopper also for 'no expiration' in addition to the daily increases. cest la vie I guess, but that's a pretty good jump in just one section of the ticket.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <And tell me, being in a loaded van for 20+ hrs with screaming children in the backseat driving from Chicago to Orlando NOT a miserable experience?< I can tell you it's not as we just returned from our semi annual visit. Of course my kids re not screaming in the back - not was that ever an acceptable behavior even when they were younger. We 'caravaned' with my sis/bro in law and their 2 kids and made numerous stops along the way. We stopped this time in Jeffersonville Indiana to visit an 1890's candy store still making cinnamon hard candies the way they did then - Schimpffs -- they demonstrate the process / sell the hot product and even have a small deli for a throw back time -- we also have stopped at historical sites along the way - many Lincoln sites for instance. We stop in Atlanta and Charlotte to see close friends on the drive home - and spend quality time together that you just don't get with air travel -- plus I travel so much for work - I really don't care to get on another plane unless that is the only way to get somewhere -- I know the stereotypical sketch of the 'are we there yet' scenario - but I am here to tell ya it doesn't have to be that way.
Originally Posted By dshyates <And tell me, being in a loaded van for 20+ hrs with screaming children in the backseat driving from Chicago to Orlando NOT a miserable experience?< I just did the 11hrs 29 min trek from Otown to WV last night. We had a wonderful time. Did Uni. Resort top to bottom. Yes, Uni only has 2 parks. And a 7 day is excessive. But it is worth it for them because a tourist is more likely to return because its paid for as opposed to paying $72 for a day at disney thus having tickets for both Disney and Uni. for the same day. We spent a week, did Uni. and Sea World. It was good for us to have 7 days at uni. That gave us a much more relaxed pace. We went back to the pool. Saw Potter in 3D IMAX, Cirque, Rainforest, Pat O'Brians, Margaritaville, And caught the water taxi over to the Orchid graden sushi bar at Royal Pacific. We had a ball. And to be honest the 2 times we went to DtD was plenty pixie dust and fairy tales for me this trip. Informal survey results: Almost everyone we saw was from Western Europe, mostly UK. (America is 50% off now). The Americans we saw were for the most part from central Florida. Very few Northerners or mid-westerners. Average people overall seem very satisfied with Universal's product in comparison to Disney. As in they like them both. Neither is perfect. Disney less perfect than it used to be. Universal more.
