Originally Posted By dshyates Republicans don't care about the state. All they know is they HATE taxes. That is as far as their thought process goes. They see themselves paying taxes, and someone else getting food stamps. That is all they need to know to determine that all taxes are bad. Spreading THEIR wealth. Socialism I tell ya. Oh, and they also HATE public schools. They see kids of less rich folks than themselves getting an unfair advantage over their kids. If thier money isn't buying their own kids an advantage what goo is it.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Answer the damn question already Darkbeer. This is at least the fourth time now. A direct answer to a pretty direct question. No obfuscation, no answering questions with another questions and links. An answer.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer SPP, NO, I am NOT going into "Personal"! This Thread is about the California Democrats and AVOIDING Mentioning the Tax Hike in an OFFICIAL State Ballot Pamphlet and how they rigged the "arguments" and other parts of the Proposition (1A). Why don't you address the ORIGINAL Post and how the Dems don't want to even allow the mention of the approval of an ADDITIONAL $16 BILLION in taxes if you vote for Prop 1A! Make ANOTHER Thread, in which I MIGHT answer if I feel like it, and the discussion is reasonable and not 90% or higher "personal" or calling people Idiots! THIS Thread deals with the way the Democrats are "rigging" the Ballot Pamphlet and I will ONLY talk about that issue and the avoiding of the issue of "taxes" in the pamphlet in this thread. (And some very close topics in regards to the wording of the Official State Ballot Pamphlet.
Originally Posted By gadzuux The "rainy day" fund is fiscal responsibility. You'd think that republicans would approve of the idea. It's not a "tax increase" - it simply states that whenever revenues exceed the budget that these funds would then be placed in reserve for shortfalls such as where we are today. It's a "down the road" measure that won't increase anybody's taxes, or have any effect on the current situation. The indignation over 'borrowing' from future lottery revenues is an accounting trick, and a risky one at that. But it's being brought to us by the republican governor. So are the tax increases. But all we hear about are "those darn democrats" who are foisting all this upon the state. It's not true and it misrepresents the reality of the situation. And finally, let's not place the republicans who voted against the budget on some kind of pedestal - it was an irresponsible action that endangered the entire state, and BTW sunk the state's credit rating to 50th out of 50. >> ... even though the person who wrote the opposition voted FOR the budget, unlike the vast majority of most Republicans. << Such as that quote. Opposing the budget over matters of ideology was the height of irresponsibility, and cost californians more in the long run than if the budget had been passed in a timely manner. They had nothing to offer in the debate but stubborn obstinance, and it resulted in delayed payments to hundreds of thousands of people and businesses. Do they care? Not one whit. The only reason for this stupid delay in arriving at the inevitable was to CYA in the next election. The GOP politicians know that their constituents don't understand the overarching issues, and can't see further than their own wallet. For them, it's either pander to ignorance and selfishness, or lose their votes. But republicans don't live in a vacuum, they live right here with the rest of us. The people of california - at least the ones who are paying attention - know exactly where the obstructionism comes from, and are losing patience. Watch for the current 2/3rds requirement in the state legislature get replaced with a simple majority. If that happens, the remaining handful of elected republicans will be rendered entirely useless. And to the OP - you're one of the few stalwart republicans that post in this room. But you never actually defend your party and it's actions - instead you're usually content to just post links to right wing diatribes. I would invite you to respond to the specifics that get brought up, and how you reconcile these issues with your continued support. In this post alone I've brought up several - - the 'rainy day' fund that you don't seem to support; - the fact that these tax increases are being endorsed and presided over by a republican governor - that I assume you DO support; - that the IOUs sent out by the state are wholly attributable to the republican party holding up the budget; - that republicans were unable to provide any feasable alternatives to the governor's budget proposal, yet still obstructed it anyway; - and that it's only because of the 2/3rds requirement in the legislature that republicans get any say at all. And they're being cavalier with the tiny sliver of responsibility they're given. So why would we give them any more? These are the issues darkbeer. So engage in the dialog and support your side. Or don't. But these sidelong potshots where you'll only speak to very narrowly defined issues and avoid comment on any of the related issues implies that you know that the actions of your party are ultimately indefensible from a logic and reason standpoint. And that the only reason someone would support the state GOP is M O N E Y. This is why republicans get the bad rep of "throw grandma in the snow". It's "I got mine jack" and I have no responsibility to anyone but myself. I wouldn't be too boastful of that belief set if it were me either.
Originally Posted By dshyates The Governator is only Republican if he gets RID of Taxes. If he wants tax money even at the current levels he is a RINO. Screw the state, taxes are socialism. No Taxes! No Taxes! No Taxes! But who are the FIRST to bitch about the pot hole they hit on the way to work? It could damage their Benz.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer >>The "rainy day" fund is fiscal responsibility. You'd think that republicans would approve of the idea. It's not a "tax increase" - it simply states that whenever revenues exceed the budget that these funds would then be placed in reserve for shortfalls such as where we are today.<< Yes, the "Spending Limits" was part of the deal that the few Republicans got as part of the Budget Deal, but MOST Repulicans think it is way too "Weak" of a measure, and a STRONGER Measure needs to be in place. >>It's a "down the road" measure that won't increase anybody's taxes, or have any effect on the current situation.<< Have you read ANYTHING in this Thread, if Prop 1A gets approved, $16 BILLION in extra taxes are being approved by the electoric as part of the Proposition!!! >>The indignation over 'borrowing' from future lottery revenues is an accounting trick, and a risky one at that. But it's being brought to us by the republican governor. So are the tax increases. But all we hear about are "those darn democrats" who are foisting all this upon the state. It's not true and it misrepresents the reality of the situation. << OH, talk about BS, the Republicans held out for NO new taxes (except the Governor, who I don't count as a Republican, more like a somewhat conserviative Democrat based on the last couple of years). The rest is basically a PERSONAL attack IMHO, and I will address in THIS thread the actions the California Democrats are taking to avoid the placement of the $16 BILLION in additional taxes that are part of Prop 1A!!!
Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Here is a VERY interesting article regarding the latest Field Poll regarding the special election. <a href="http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=19925" target="_blank">http://www.sanfranciscosentine...?p=19925</a> (Selected paragraphs only, go clisk on link to read the ENTIRE thing)... >>The most crucial fiscal component, a $5 billion California Lottery borrowing plan in Proposition 1C, has the weakest support among the six measures, with only 47 percent of likely voters for it. << WOW, that means more cuts in spending, just like the private sector! >>And when told that the “rainy-day” measure, Proposition 1A, triggers as much as $16 billion in higher taxes through 2013, four out of 10 initial supporters said they were less inclined to vote for the measure, particularly Republicans and fiscal conservatives. “I’d vote ‘no’ on that,” said William Tate, 49, a South Lake Tahoe voter who said he’d support Proposition 1A before learning of the taxes. “They should just save some money and put it in a ‘rainy-day fund’ without taxing people. We’ve got too much bureaucracy in this state.” The poll was conducted between Feb. 20 and March 1, right after Schwarzenegger signed the budget into law. For each measure, pollsters used descriptions that the Legislature wrote for the ballot.<< Gee, why are the Democrats trying to NOT mention the ADDITIONAL $16 BILLION in taxes??? >>Campaign experts believe a major factor in the fate of the ballot measures is whether labor unions, who oppose the spending limit in Proposition 1A, will spend millions of dollars to fight the measure. State leaders included the $16 billion in tax revenues to entice them to stay away.<< But they don't want to have mentioned specifically (aka which taxes) will be approved in the Summary!
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains <Gee, why are the Democrats trying to NOT mention the ADDITIONAL $16 BILLION in taxes???>> Okay first, I don't understand why when you bring up any of these types of cut and paste topics you make it out that it's almost a dirty thing to be a democrate.. Second, I do understand that the Democrate's are the ones that are suppose to write up the prop 1A descriptions. But really so what? The Governor is a Republican and I don't see him standing up and talking about the taxes either. <, the Governor, who I don't count as a Republican, more like a somewhat conserviative Democrat based on the last couple of years>> Really that is just you opinion. I am sure he would argue that with you. It seems that if a republican doesn't follow what people like Rush and his gang want (like you to respectfully Darkbeer) then their republicanism (?) is then questioned.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "The rest is basically a PERSONAL attack IMHO, and I will address in THIS thread the actions the California Democrats are taking to avoid the placement of the $16 BILLION in additional taxes that are part of Prop 1A!!!" What a crock. You're avoiding the issue, plain and simple. Personal attack my ass. WHO GIVES A RIP what is or isn't in these props? Your thread title is yet another rip on "Dems", a partisan jab, because it's all about the taxes, which IS the underlying issue. So address the question. You're already exposed, frankly, because you don't have the sack to answer the question. And here's the question again- how do you close the state budget gap if the taxes aren't raised????? THAT IS the underlying issue here, not some contrived bull over the wording of these props.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder And I'll bet you complained to Admin as well. I did not write post 27, whatever it was.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Post 30 is a pretty substantive question Darkbeer. If you see a personal attack if asking you how to close the gap if not for taxes, then that's pretty weak.
Originally Posted By dshyates I wrote #27, and I am not sure why it was deleted. There was no dirty words, no personal attack or anything. In post #25 I said that Darkbeer probably thinks Arnold was a RINO, in #26 Darkbeer basically called Arnold a RINO. In the deleted post #27 I pointed out that I was correct in post #25. I am not sure what the problem was.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer First off, I am JUST a typical USER as far as I can tell, is every other poster in this thread... I have no right to DEMAND or Pretend I have "More" power or rights just because I think I do... As I understand it, the forum is open to ALL Laughing Place posters, regardless of their political leanings, and there is MORE than 2 political leanings I have no right to ask or try and force someone to answer any specific post or question of mine, BUT I do have the right to respect the basic rules of the LP boards, including NOT trying to derail threads of the main subject, or making personal attacks. <a href="http://mb.laughingplace.com/MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">http://mb.laughingplace.com/Ms...ules.asp</a> >>The purpose of the Discussion Boards is for fans to share information, ask questions and generally talk about Disney. Unlike USENET newsgroups, the administrators of LaughingPlace.com have the right to delete messages for any reason. However, message authors own and are responsible for what they post. Please use the items below as a general guide for what is and is not appropriate to post. However, LaughingPlace.com always reserves the right to remove any message at any time for any reason. 1. NO PROFANITY: Profanity will absolutely not be tolerated on these boards. Any messages containing any profanity will immediately be removed regardless of the other content it contains. If you're not sure if a particular word is considered profane, please err on the side of caution. We also will not accept messages that contain profanity either abbreviated or with certain letters replaced with "*" or another character. The subject matter of our site is Disney, we want our Discussion Boards to be accessible to people of all ages interested in Disney. 2. ILLEGAL & INAPPROPRIATE ACTIVITY: Discussion of illegal activity will not be tolerated on the Discussion Boards. In addition, activities that may not be illegal but are deemed inappropriate (eg. sexual topics, sneaking into the parks, sharing discount codes) will not be tolerated. Offending posts will be deleted. 3. COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL: Do not post material this is protected by copyright - such as completed articles copied from other sources - unless you are the copyright holder or have the author's permission. Fair use allows posting of small excerpts. 4. ADVERTISING: Advertising, either in the form of posting an item or product for sale or auction or letting others know about an item or product for sale is prohibited. LaughingPlace.com may make exceptions to this rule for its partners or others as we see fit. 5. LINKS TO OTHER SITES: You are free to post a link to other Disney related websites on our Discussion Boards. However, you may not post links to pages and sites that sell products or services unless it is pertinent to an existing topic. And you may not excessively post links or post them in multiple topics or sections. 6. NO FIGHTING: Please be polite to all posters on the Discussion Boards. Mean spirited messages and exchanges will be deleted at the administrators' discretion. We also ask that you don't unnecessarily antagonize others, and don't represent yourself as another person. Also, do not post any material that is defamatory, infringing, obscene, violates the legal rights of others. And remember, you can be held legally liable for what you write. 7. NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: Personal attacks against anyone - other posters, public figures, names in the news - anyone, is not allowed on LaughingPlace.com 8. STAYING ON TOPIC: There is a section on LaughingPlace.com for each area of Disney. Please post your messages in the most appropriate section. If you feel a new section should be created, please send us Feedback and we will consider it. 8. INTENTIONALLY BREAKING THE RULES: We understand that sometimes mistakes are made or things are posted in the heat of a topic. However, those who intentionally break the rules and make posts knowing they're going to be deleted will be warned and/or removed from the boards. 10. THE REST: Please keep in mind these Community Standards are guidelines. Ultimately, the editors of LaughingPlace.com reserve the right to remove posts for reasons that don't directly fall into one of the above categories but are still felt to be inappropriate for the Discussion Boards. The normal course of action to remedy the above situations is to delete the post. If someone continually poses a problem, they may be contacted by email and, if the problem persists, barred from the Discussion Boards. If you have questions regarding the Community Standards, please feel free to contact us at webmaster@LaughingPlace.com.<< Once again, lets talk about the Democrats in THIS thread, and why they are trying to NOT disclose an additional $16 BILLION in taxes! And FYI, I have not reported a post to Admins in MONTHS, and usually it is usually just due to the 4 letter word issue when I do!
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains <Once again, lets talk about the Democrats in THIS thread, and why they are trying to NOT disclose an additional $16 BILLION in taxes!> So if we all want to sit around and bash democrats following a Republican governor we are on topic then? Apparently with all the news stories you have cut and pasted, it's really not an issue anymore is it?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Darkbeer- all the state employees have been laid off. You've achieved nirvana. The state is still short $20 billion. What do you do, what do you do?
Originally Posted By dshyates "including NOT trying to derail threads of the main subject, or making personal attacks." OK, now I get it, I was trying to derail the thread, and pointing out the truth is a personal attack. Whatever!
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder As long as us wacky kids are crazy over links in this thread, here's a rather decent summary about Prop 13, which has much to do with why California finds itself in the jam it does. Prop 13 needs to go (hint there, Darkbeer guy- there's one reeeelly big answer to my question that has you stumped. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...ition_13</a>_(1978)
Originally Posted By Darkbeer FYI, my Fiancee is a Government employee (County employed) and she is a Moderate Republican that strongly indorses TRUE Budget Cuts in the State, not just slightly reduced increases... OH MY, you just got her going... I won't go thru it all, but if WE (individuals) have to be responsable and watch our budgets, and CUT expenses due to INCREAsED taxes, why shouldn't the state (and local governments) do the same??? We HAVE to do with less in this economy, and basically going from yearly budgets of $100 Billion to $150 Billion in the last five years is WAY overspending, and we NEED to get back to the lower levels, PLAIN and SIMPLE!!! Heck, is Disney cutting back and offering less, alas, yes... But so does the Government!!! Especially in the state of California!
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Once again, QUIT SIDETRACKING, SPP! THIS Thread deals with the wording that the California Democrats are placing on the OFFICIAL State Ballot Pamphlet for May 19th, not your PERSONAL sidetracks!
