Originally Posted By ecdc "What is largely unknown within the general population is the Mormon historical and theological belief that America is destined to become a theocracy, with the Prophet, Seer and Revelator of the LDS Church as both secular and spiritual leader. This is based on statements made by Brigham Young in 1854 and 1855. In a nutshell, he claimed, "...when the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the Mormon Elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, pge. 182)" Except you'd be hard pressed to find Mormons today who believe this, or at least make it a central part of their faith. Ask a Mormon about sex on TV, violence in movies, or drinking alcohol and you'll get quite the reaction; ask Mormons about this Brigham Young quote and they'll most likely shrug. In reality, obscure quotes like this from Brigham Young are almost always drudged up by anti-Mormons like Ed Decker, Walter Martin, and other evangelical Protestants determined to cast Mormonism in a bad light. The question for Mitt Romney is, how much press stuff like this will get.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I don't think Romney's problem would be so much the overt bringing up of stuff like this (though it might happen). It would be more the vague sense of "not gonna vote for him" that too many people have of Mormons, Jews, atheists, and for many years, Catholics. No one brought up specific tenets of Judaism they thought strange, for instance, when Lieberman ran. They didn't have to. There is an unfortunately large percentage of the population who simply will never vote for a Jew for president, period, and this has been shown in poll after poll. I think this will be Romney's biggest problem. Not anything said overtly; just the stubborn UNspoken reluctance too many have not to vote for a Mormon (or Jew, or etc.)
Originally Posted By wahooskipper There are times when I think Natalie Maines (of the Dixie Chicks) wasn't too far off. There are plenty of reasons to be embarassed to be an American...and this is right up there. Don't we have enough stupid reasons why we do or do not elect someone President? Do we need religion to be yet another? I say Donny Osmond for President!
Originally Posted By Elderp "My apologies, Elderp. No disrespect intended at all." Don't worry about it, I learned long ago if I was to ever step foot in World Events I would need to have a bit of thick skin. As far as Brigham Young's quotes go. I can say yes I believe in a theocracy but the part of this quote that your missing is the part where Brigham Young talks about how Jesus Christ is going to come down and restablish his kingdom here on earth. Call it radicalism if you will but we believe when Jesus Christ comes back to earth society as we know it will change rather drastically. I am no scholar on the book Revelations in the Bible but if you believe just a portion of what it says about the last days I believe it will make for quite an interesting time. Having said that Mitt Romney is no prophet. I was looking up his church callings (everyone in the LDS church is assigned a "job" which is called a calling to help the church) and all I could find was Home Teacher. Home teacher is a default calling in the church. It is an important job, but it isn't what I would call a leadership position.
Originally Posted By jonvn "They didn't have to. There is an unfortunately large percentage of the population who simply will never vote for a Jew for president, period, and this has been shown in poll after poll. " Tons of people think that "the Jews" "run" this country already. Basic anti-semitism. It is so ingrained that people don't even realize that is what it is.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo "I say Donny Osmond for President!" Now that's a celeb I think I would like in the White House - he could be a very interesting diplomat!
Originally Posted By wahooskipper The only skeleton in his closet is that whole "Puppy Love" incident.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Tons of people think that "the Jews" "run" this country already. Basic anti-semitism. It is so ingrained that people don't even realize that is what it is. > That's right. And with some people it would extend to Mormons as well. It isn't overt, it isn't even EXAMINED internally with them, it's just there.
Originally Posted By jonvn Yes. Isn't religion great? Gore lost because he had a Jew for VP. No one will say it out loud, but as far as I'm concerned, that was the reason.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Gore lost because he was a stiff knucklehead. At least "the Jew" had a good personality. I think Liberman, from a political standpoint, is more like most Americans than anyone else right now. Heck, I might vote for him if he runs...and could care less that he is Jewish.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Gore lost because he had a Jew for VP. << If that were true, I think they would have lost the popular vote rather than just the electoral vote. When Gore went into pre-school teacher mode in the debates (see SNL 'lockbox' skit) I think that hurt him far more than Leiberman's faith.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Gore lost because he was a stiff knucklehead." Who had a Jew as a VP candidate.
Originally Posted By ecdc "On a slightly different note, is LDS tax-exempt?" Yes it is. The question has been raised from time to time if the exempt status should be restricted for Mormonisms sometime involvement in political issues, but it's never been too serious.
Originally Posted By jonvn "If that were true, I think they would have lost the popular vote rather than just the electoral vote." You're going to have to understand. Most people are not as liberal as those on this board, and are not as accepting of others as people in large cities. I talk to tons of people all the time. One thing is fairly consistent. They don't like people of certain religions. Jews run the country, they own all media, etc. They don't like them. Not in an overt way that wants them rounded up and killed, but they certainly think they have enough "power," to use a word I've heard. They won't vote for one. They will come up with any other reason to not vote for one, if they want to fool themselves, but they won't vote for one, particularly in the south. Same with Mormons. They won't vote for one. Lots of people still won't vote for a Catholic, they just won't say it out loud like they did in the 1960 race. People were much more open about their base prejudice back then, and have learned via political correctness to not voice their true feelings. Look at what happened when Mel Gibson got himself a drink or two and started saying how he really felt. Didn't go well for him. If you're not a member of a minority group, it's very hard to see ingrained prejudice, but if you are, you can see it. This is, of course, much different from overt prejudice that many, such as homosexuals have to suffer under, and to a large extent black people still suffer under. It's not openly spoken of, but it is there, and it doesn't take a lot of probing to bring it to the fore. Even on this topic, people are talking about Mormons and polygamy, and not drinking and this or that. Things that are really of no consequence, but are brought up to show that bigotry exists, and it is not going to go away. Hatred of Jews, and religious hatred in general has been around for a long time, and it is not going away any time soon.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Unfortunately at this point in time having a Jew for a president would be complete disaster. Any time he made a decision concerning Middle East policy there would be questions about whether the decision was made based on what he felt was best for the United States, or what he felt was best for the Jewish people and Israel. Yes, I know that is unfair. But it is reality. The whole Muslim/Jew thing is way too hot for a member of either religion to be elected president at this time.
Originally Posted By jonvn Do you realize that what you said was PRECISELY what people said about Kennedy and the Vatican? They said that every decision he made would have to bow to pressure from the Pope. We wouldn't have our own President, we'd have someone beholden to Rome, and he'd never be able to make an independent decision.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Do you realize that what you said was PRECISELY what people said about Kennedy and the Vatican?>> Yes I do. I didn't say I supported people thinking like that, but it is the reality.
Originally Posted By DlandJB "I say Donny Osmond for President!" No way - Marie would be a much better leader -- besides, she doesn't get stage fright.
