Originally Posted By Sport Goofy Blackstone has been actively shopping their stake in Universal Orlando for the past 5 years. They couldn't get any takers, given the consistently declining attendance at those parks. Their recent foray into Busch and Merlin Entertainment is just a ploy to repackage all of their parks and entertainment businesses into a company that could be handed over to shareholders in an IPO deal. They are hoping that there are plenty of suckers out there who will be interested in owning stock in a theme park company, but ignore the fact that it is cash flow negative. Economic conditions have not been conducive for IPOs lately. As soon as the economy stabilizes, expect Blackstone to unload and reward themselves with the cash they collect from the sale.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I think Leemac did a good job of 'splaining what Blackstone's view and plans for the theme park business are. But the larger, more important point, is what adding WWoHP has done to UNI's reputation first and bottom line, second. The fact is Potter is being talked about worldwide while Disney has nothing on the table for O-Town that can come close to generating that type of interest and attention. Hell, even DCA's very popular WoC show hasn't been in the same universe of attention that IOA's Potter addition has garnered. THAT may push Disney into actually investing REAL money into its largely stale and stagnant FLA parks ... I think that's more interesting to follow. UNI may always be a No. 2, but now they're looking like a No. 2 that always wants to try harder and is willing to spend to do so. ~Meet and greets with the Marvel characters anyone?~
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << THAT may push Disney into actually investing REAL money into its largely stale and stagnant FLA parks ... I think that's more interesting to follow. >> I don't think Disney plans to spend any money until they figure out whether the U.S. economy is heading for long-term stagnation and/or depression during the next 5 years.
Originally Posted By Smiling Grump "I would be extremely surprised, given the 2010 Potter shift, if the Mouse is not currently running second to the combined competition already. Whether or not it's 1 holding company or 3 different companies shouldn't really matter, I think. If they're losing, they're losing." Gotta throw in some numbers here so people don't loose site of how big WDW is (it's easy to do with all the good press Potterland is getting) ... 2008 Attendance Figures (I couldn't find more recent) 1 - Magic Kingdom - 17million 2 - Disneyland - 14.7million 3 - Tokyo Disney - 14.3million 4 - Disney Paris - 12.7million 5 - Universal Japan - 8.3million 6 - Everland (Seoul) - 6.6million 7 - Universal Florida - 6.2million (I'm not overly happy with the way Forbes ranked the Parks, since actual attendance numbers are available. They took only the attendance for MK and DL and didn't include the other Parks on the list which would have sent Universal Florida down to the #10 or 12 spot) So .... if Potterland is capable of drawing (and holding) TWICE Universal Fla's attendance for 2008 it will still fall short of Disney Paris. Consider also that 60%-90% of Universal visitors also go to WDW while likely under 1/4 WDW visitors also go to Universal. In other words, one of Universal's biggest draws is WDW. 17 MILLION ... that's why the Mouse holds the big bat when dealing with Central Florida. Disney sneezes, the State catches cold.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 "Most have NEVER heard of Islands of Adventure or even realize that Harry Potter is just another land in that park. (Strange and poor marketing strategies on Universal's part, imho. They should have marketed Harry Potter as part of IOA from the beginning, but that's another story.)" Perhaps they should have had an advertising strategy where the Terminator, Marty McFly, Bruce the shark and Jimmy Neutron all peer over the fence to see what's going on? No wait.....that'd be LAME, wouldn't it? ; )
Originally Posted By brotherdave I should have added in my "birthday cake" analogy that while some prefer only "ice cream" (Universal/Sea World/Busch Gardens) over "cake" (Disney), most want just "cake". Personally, I always have "ice cream" with my "cake" when I visit Orlando!!!
Originally Posted By MousDad The annual park attendance list is a bunch of b.s. Those numbers are at best estimation, at worst outright lies. Not to mention that the impact of overlapping guests must really skew the counts. The bottom line is that matters is when the spending tide starts shifting from parks, resorts, restaurants, other attractions on Disney property, to parks, resorts, restaurants, other attractions off Disney property. I think it's happening now, but that's just my opinion. Then, once people start seeing a more valuable alternative to MYW, it's all bets off. Thankfully though, as a Disney fan (even though a critical one), it appears the Mouse has responded, and doesn't take the same "hold fingers in ear and say la-la-la" attitude that it's most ardent defenders do.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<The annual park attendance list is a bunch of b.s. Those numbers are at best estimation, at worst outright lies. Not to mention that the impact of overlapping guests must really skew the counts.>> They may be an estimation, but the same applies to Uni/IOA too. I'm sure the numbers aren't that far off; similar and more recent numbers have been reported by other sources. <<once people start seeing a more valuable alternative to MYW, it's all bets off.>> Many people won't ever see an alternative, because Disney advertising is almost unavoidable, and frankly is expert at getting people to associate WDW with being the best family vacation.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper The question isn't which park is going to draw more people. Walt Disney World, if for no other reason than size and capacity is always going to run significantly ahead of Universal. The question in my mind is quality. Back in the 80s Disney was resting a bit on the success of the MK and Epcot. Rumor comes that Universal is moving in next door and Disney responds with Disney-MGM. (I wasn't thrill with the first incarnation of Disney-MGM but I wasn't all that thrilled with the original Universal park either.) In '98 Disney steps up the quality and detail of the resort (in my opinion) with Animal Kingdom and in '99 Universal responds with IOA...the first truly "creatively competitive" park to come along. Oh, and I should mention that the success off IOA is not lost on Sea World who dives deeper into the rollercoaster business with some great results. This year Universal opens up Potterland which is a heck of an addition to IOA from all accounts and Disney is going to respond with an upgrade to the MK and now, possibly, Epcot. Competition in Orlando is forcing each company to respond to the other which, in my opinion, means good things for all of us that enjoy the amusement park industry. The real winner? Orlando's economy which benefits not only from the corporate real estate taxes but also from the bed tax.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>I doubt that Blackstone will make any substantial capital investment in their portfolio (NBC-Uni control USF) as it will potentially reduce their exit profit. They bought Merlin in summer '05 and Sea World in December '09. I'm sure once they feel that the economy is rebounding and that tourists are returning to their parks they will offload the investment.<<< Well Merlin are building Legoland Florida, they are renewing the Winter Gardens and Blackpool Tower with a new Madame Tussauds, and of course Legoland Windsor are making huge capital investments over a 5 year plan. Sounds like Blackstone are not letting them shrivel up to me.
Originally Posted By disneykid90 Random and off topic for the most part. I live in Hampton Roads Va which is where Busch Williamsburg and Water Country USA. Under Disney I have always loved these parks since I grew up visiting them MULTIPLE times per years. To me they are a different calibre from Disney with their theming. They have always been flawlessly maintained and constructed. I am personal friends with the owner of the company they use for their plants which was a small operation at the time of the contract acquisition. After the sale to Blackstone I became greatly worried about the quality of the parks in themselves. Since the sale and formation of Seaworld Parks and Entertainment they management from under Busch was cut and replaced under Blackstone. The manager I knew that were under AB are the same in under Blackstone. Blackstone has given them ideas and what not but essentially it is the same management and structure it was pre-sale. I highly doubt you will see them attempt to promote any former AB park in conjunction with a Universal property. That is my observation that I have come up with. Hopefully someone else can weigh in on my view
