Originally Posted By davewasbaloo In the original plans, there was to be the Peter Pan style dark ride across from Bella Notte Pizzaria and It's a Small World. That is widely known thanks to the DVD clip Tony Baxter did a while ago. Well, in the same masterplan, there was to be a BatB show around the corner, between the Sir Mickey's shop with the beanstalk and Fantasia Gelati. It was to be like our Country Bears or Tiki Room. Sadly, when the resort was tanking, and needed more capacity (as it was busy), it was decided the money would be spent on Indiana Jones and the Termple of Peril and Storybookland instead, saving some capital towards the cost of the Discoveryland expansion. Sadly, I would not hold my breath on some things, but sorces have revealed potential capital for expansion over the next 8 years. the rumours of course are Rat (it has been mentioned publically as well as planning permission), there is talk of Mermaid going near Fantastland Station, and some are thinking Soarin' is in the mix for the studios. I am not sure, but I know TSPL was not the right move, and I am worried about the lack of money still at DLP which is why the place has been rotting and entertainment is next to nill unless it is rubber heads in the hub (though thankfully the Tarzan stage show is back for this summer).
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 It is SO sad Dave that for a resort that does not get many new things, instead of spending money on a new Splash or LM or BaTB, they spent MUCH NEEDED funds on TS Poopland - complete with LOW capacity rides and garish theming(is Eisner back? That's right - let's make over-sized icons - they are WHIMSICAL and FANTASTICAL!!! rolls eyes) God that place looks AWFUL!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo It is awful, even my kids are not that bothered (though my son loves RC racer, but he is 8 and just getting into thrills, I bet in a few years he will not feel that way). But the Euro fans on line lap it up, and at rope drop, people are making a b line to this rubbish. But sadly, to a lot of Europeans, parks are supposed to be Carnivals, and Disney is supposed to be toons - vomit. We have the most beautiful MK ever created, and it is neglected. Then we have crap europop pumped onto Main Street during parties and the character shows. And these pieces of crap coming out to the Studios (a park that had a lot of promise). It makes me want to cry into my plush.
Originally Posted By Bolna <<In the original plans, there was to be the Peter Pan style dark ride across from Bella Notte Pizzaria and It's a Small World. That is widely known thanks to the DVD clip Tony Baxter did a while ago.>> Is that the original Mermaid attraction that was planned? And the spot would be on the other side of the parade gate at Small World? <<Well, in the same masterplan, there was to be a BatB show around the corner, between the Sir Mickey's shop with the beanstalk and Fantasia Gelati.>> I always thought it would have gone there. This is so obviously an expansion pad. But it is very nicely planted and the greenery there adds a lot to the atmosphere in Fantasyland. However, of course I would have preferred the Beauty and the Beast show!! That's the one where there are rumors that they will reuse elements for the new Belle restaurant at WDW, I guess?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Is that the original Mermaid attraction that was planned? And the spot would be on the other side of the parade gate at Small World?<<< In the very original plans, that was to be Toontown, however that is now a defunct idea at WDI. So we will have to wait, unless the finances turn around at DLP, I don't know if we will ever see another amazing addition. As for the BatB restaurant at WDW, you know what they say, a good idea is never wasted in WDW. Heck, they even just copied the Storybookland Castle at DLP to sit on top of the Florida building.
Originally Posted By Bolna <<But the Euro fans on line lap it up, and at rope drop, people are making a b line to this rubbish. But sadly, to a lot of Europeans, parks are supposed to be Carnivals, and Disney is supposed to be toons - vomit.>> I agree, it is so sad... But I think it also has to do with whom they target with their marketing, not realising how they lose out on a large and very affluent customer base.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed. The latest brochure mainly has pictures of kids and not much on the attractions themselves. The people I know that tell me after the fact they have been to DLP and missed so much - PotC, PM, Star Tours, some of the Fantasyland dark rides, all the walk throughs, Cinemagique, Animagique, Moteurs Action, Armageddon, Stitch Live etc. They come back saying they had a great time, but there wasn't much there. Why? Because they thought it was only the FP attractions, coasters and spinners (because frankly, that is what most parks are). They missed the real gems. The stuff that Disney would advertise years ago. And they complain the park is all burgers. Well given I have been 55 times now, and really only ever eaten a burger within the berm once and the only others are at Annette's, it leaves me scratching my head. But DLP advertise at the "magic for little ones" market and leave out all the rest, virtually ignoring the German/Swiss/Austrian market (the economic powers of Europe). It beggars belief. Doesn't help they have retooled good restaurants into buffets or character fests, turned Cowboy Cookout into a character meal shuttering Woody's Roundup only a few years after opening etc.
Originally Posted By Bolna <<turned Cowboy Cookout into a character meal>> I could have cried when I found that out!! This has been my favourite counter service location since my very first visit. I am so glad that we had a last wonderful lunch there in March when they only had the tea party there. Where else in Europe do you get barbecue??? At least in Germany this is one part of the American cuisine that hasn't made it here (we do have restaurants with New Orleans food, Californian fusion cuisine and the normal burgers of course). Funny how people think it is only burgers! I think I might once have had one at Videopolis in 97 (I remember a lousy meal there and since then rather hating that space). I would say that you can only get pizza and pasta everywhere (very annoying when you travel with someone who is lactose intolerance and has an allergy against tomatoes). However, I would not agree that the walk-throughs are one of DLP's high points. I kind of like the fact that they are there and add depth to the place. But I think they are rather a bit boring (at least Frontierland and Adventureland, haven't been in the castle since the 90s since it always is closed when I am there). I see so many people going on expensive city breaks, and those aren't the one with small kids. I used to live in Berlin for the last three years and that place (ok, it is rather a cheap destination if compared with London for example) is busy for about 10 months of the year with tourists from all over Europe. Berlin's economy actually depends on them. But I am sure of those people who travel to Berlin only very few ever would think about to go to DLP because it isn't marketed as a destination for them.
Originally Posted By Bolna Sometimes I wonder whether DLP wasn't just very unlucky with its timing. When they made the decision to build it in the 1980s no one could expected how much Europe would change within the next 10 years. I think they never managed to get a hold in the German market, not because of the German parks, but because Germany was too much focused on getting its economy going again and rebuilding Eastern Germany after 45 years of neglect. I am sure that their business models to begin with must have counted with much more traffic from Germany. After all it isn't that far from Western Germany to Paris. The whole Disney perfection is something that would really appeal to Germans. And in the 80s Germans were among the richest nations within Europe - and one of the largest. While in the 80s Paris was rather central in "Europe" (as in the Europe that mattered from a business perspective), now it is rather at the fringe of it. I see people in Eastern Europe really catching up economically and for them Paris is really far away. I wonder if it hadn't been planned 10 years later, if it hadn't ended up in Brandenburg - just outside Berlin. ;-) The weather isn't much worse than Paris (actually very warm and sunny in the summer), Germany might have made Disney a very nice deal to get employment opportunities in that rather poor area. Berlin has historically very strong ties to the US (and the UK - you don't forget it when someone feeds a whole city via air for a whole year) and as I said, Germany and Disney might be a better fit culturally than France and Disney.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>However, I would not agree that the walk-throughs are one of DLP's high points. I kind of like the fact that they are there and add depth to the place. But I think they are rather a bit boring (at least Frontierland and Adventureland, haven't been in the castle since the 90s since it always is closed when I am there).<<< I don't know, to me the adventure Isle Caves, Le Tannier du Dragon, Alice's Curious Labrynth and the Nautilus are pretty spectacular. But I agree, so many people say they think it would have been better in Spain, I think Germany would have been great. But actually I do not think Paris was a bad choice. It is very easy for France, UK, Belgium and Germany, and not too bad for Spain and Italy, plus Paris is still the most highly visited city in the world.
Originally Posted By Bolna <<I don't know, to me the adventure Isle Caves, Le Tannier du Dragon, Alice's Curious Labrynth and the Nautilus are pretty spectacular.>> ok - stupid me, might have been a language problem on my side. I always think of the Fort and the Aladdin story as "the walk throughs". You are right, those are great and real attractions, that's why I don't think of them as walk-throughs.
Originally Posted By Bolna Don't think at all it would have been better in Spain. Too hot in the summer and much more difficult to get to. Overall I am still happy with Paris, and for the 1980s it was the best choice available. Who could expect that Europe would change so rapidly? And all the French adds a lot of charm (Château de la Belle au bois dormant sounds much more romantic than Dornröschenschloss).
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo No worries, it could be a language barrier, or indeed, some consider them attractions, others not. It is a difficult grey area. But none the less, I think it is part of what makes DLP such a rich tapestry compared to the other MK parks around the globe. Not even my beloved DL has anything on that scale on offer. Only DAK and TDS come to mind for having anything similar.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Alles im butter! ;-) To be honest, as a lad, I was just happy to get one in Europe. I moved from California to the UK in 1986, and grew up going to DL frequently (in the days before APs). Coming to Europe, other than family, the one thing I really regretted was leaving DL. So by 1992, I was over the moon. It is a shame it has slipped so badly for at least the last 15 years.
Originally Posted By Bolna Lol Alice's Curious Labyrinth is actually one of my favourite attractions at the park. I was happy to see it in rather good shape in March even before it was closed for refurb. I hadn't seen the Queen of Hearts on previous visits and she was there this time! And I agree that they add another level of experience. To have to wait 6 years for Eurodisney must have been a long time for someone young. For me Disneyland in California had always been that dream land. I have an aunt in California and she showed us pictures of a family trip to DL when I was little. Ever since then I wanted to go there, too. It was always agreed that when I would come and visit my aunt one day, she would take me there. That was finally the case in summer of 92. While it made me a bit arrogant towards Eurodisney since that was only the copy while I had been to the original, I was so much in love with DL after that trip that I started planning lots of trips to DLP immediately after that. If I had kept them, I would have all the German travel brochures since summer 92... I also own all of the guide books that came out on the German market (still have those).
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Cool. I have all the 1991 and 1992 ones from the UK as well as the guide books. Lol.
Originally Posted By dagobert It would have been great if Disneyland would have been built in Germany. Not only because I wouldn't have to drive 9 hours. Unfortunately the political situation in Germany during the 80s didn't let it happen. It amazes me why the German/Austria market is so neglected by Disney. These two countries weren't that affected by the economic crisis like others, but Disney still focuses so much on countries like Spain.
Originally Posted By Bolna <<It would have been great if Disneyland would have been built in Germany. Not only because I wouldn't have to drive 9 hours. Unfortunately the political situation in Germany during the 80s didn't let it happen. >> I am sure they never even considered it in the 80s, would have been really stupid... <<It amazes me why the German/Austria market is so neglected by Disney. These two countries weren't that affected by the economic crisis like others, but Disney still focuses so much on countries like Spain.>> I absolutely agree and cannot come up with any good reason. I wonder whether they will start to market the 20th anniversary, I think the 15th was the last time I noticed any marketing efforts here in Germany. And Welcome to LP dagobert! I am a regular lurker on magicforums (to everyone else here, not to be confused with the "magical" site - magicforums is a DLP discussion board) and always enjoyed your posts there. It's great to have another European here and even a second German speaker (I am German).
Originally Posted By dagobert Hi Bolna! Thanks for the welcome. Yes I'm a regular poster on the other forum, but it was getting a bit boring over there. It's always the same discussion. Davewasbaloo hinted that this forum is a more critical and so I joined. So far I really like it here. Are you also on other forums, fo example the new German board? May I ask from where in Germany do you come from. In Austria we don't have any advertising of Disneyland Paris. I remember an article in a newspaper about the 15th birthday, but that's it. It drives me crazy when people still call it Euro Disney. Maybe if Disney would build the resort today, Germany would be a great choice. One last question: How do I quote here?
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 Highlight, control C and then control V. Yeah, we know. Drives us nuts, too!
