Originally Posted By whistler Jonvn, have you tried catal? I've found it to be very nice, with good food and a relaxed but attractive atmosphere.
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror >>>"Disney is a premium brand hotel name" I think the reputation is overpriced for what you get. People would not stay there unless they lowered their price.<<< Agreed. Which goes back to falling standards in their participation in the hospitality industry. Once upon a time, the Disney name, in hotel service, meant something very, very special. They've so diluted their resources and so spread out their target audience, to try and include EVERY socio-economic group, that there's been an erosion in the bottom line of hospitality standards.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Once upon a time, the Disney name, in hotel service, meant something very, very special. >> When? Read the travel guides from the 1970s and early 1980s -- they regularly skewered the WDW hotels for being quite bizarre in how they operated. Guest service was not particularly wonderful back then. In fact, by my experience, it is much better now. I remember having to wait until well into the evening before they would have rooms ready at WDW hotels, and this fact was noted in several prominent WDW guide books. I experienced overflowing toilets, maid service that didn't show up for a daily freshening, and overly lengthy lines at the check-in desk. Those bad experiences were all during the early 80s. My recent experiences have all been very pleasant and much better than I can remember "once upon a time."
Originally Posted By jonvn "Jonvn, have you tried catal?" Yes, actually, I thought it was pretty good. It's not like say what a Napa Rose restaurant would be, but it's really quite nice. Considering what was there before (the Eeyore section...or was it Flower?) It's really great. When we leave the park now, we stay on the property and drop more money. It works really well. I don't think Disney ever really had a good reputation as a hotel operator. In the last few years, it's gone up a bit.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "The resort was not built for a a couple thousand conventioners, it was built with the intention of making it a safe place for the MILLIONS that visit." That one sentence sums up the whole argument.
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror >>>When? Read the travel guides from the 1970s and early 1980s -- they regularly skewered the WDW hotels for being quite bizarre in how they operated. Guest service was not particularly wonderful back then.<<< I don't have to read the travel guides from those years, because I was around, experienced it, and had a pretty comprehensive overview of the resorts and their guests' expectations, based on guest experience at that time. The hotel situation there has fractured into premium, and everything else... And even the premium hotels now, have seen a decline in service quality over the last ten years.
Originally Posted By pwrof3 Downtown Disney, for me, is a joke. The actual layout and area is quite nice, but the chosen retailers are horrible. They have too few normal stores like Quicksilver and Jamba Juice and way too many pricey specialty stores like Department 56 and Illuminations. If you don't want to wait at a restaurant you're stuck with either a Wetzel Pretzel, kettle corn, or the La Brea Bakery. Most of the restaurants and stores are on the higher price end, which is not family friendly. I have always felt that Downtown Disney needed to be more like CityWalk. As for the discussion on the Disneyland Hotel - it is much too expensive considering the age and condition of the main towers. Sure, they fixed up the pool, but the towers look hideous and are on the verge of collapse. They really need to fix that place up with a solid demolition.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "Most of the restaurants and stores are on the higher price end, which is not family friendly." Um, if you think ESPN Zone and Rainforest Cafe are too expensive not family friendly then I'd say City Walk is a perfect place for you.
Originally Posted By StClairC >>They have too few normal stores like Quicksilver and Jamba Juice and way too many pricey specialty stores like Department 56 and Illuminations.<< I'd say thats part of the charm of the area. If I wanted to go to a PacSun or an Old Navy I'd go to the Block or to MainPlace - both of which are reasonably close. There's no point in making such a nice area like DownTown Disney into your everyday outdoor mall. >>If you don't want to wait at a restaurant you're stuck with either a Wetzel Pretzel, kettle corn, or the La Brea Bakery.<< Or the self service areas of Jazz Kitchen or Tortilla Joes. Or the Uva Bar. There's plenty "family friendly" places to eat in the area. What do you want, a food court? Again...just make it a cookie cutter of any other mall out there...And if you're that impacient that you can't wait at any of there - there is a McDonalds right across Harbor Blvd. >>Most of the restaurants and stores are on the higher price end, which is not family friendly.<< Says who? Where is it written that "higher price end" isn't family friendly? All you have to do is walk into the lobby of Catals and see it littered with dozens of strollers - I'd say that seems pretty family friendly.
Originally Posted By ArchtMig >>>"The one that is there now was the most logical for the property." That strikes me as pretty obvious. The way it is laid out right now is about the best way to do it.<<< True. The juxtaposition of the two park entrances, and all the consolidation of tram and foot traffic, security, and ticketing just makes a lot of sense. Plus, park hopping is immensely easier to do here than at WDW, but of course, the wide open spaces and abundance of land at WDW more than makes up for the less convenient park hopping ability. Anaheim's Downtown Disney was done right, too. Not commenting on the product mix, just the way they laid it out in relationship to the hotels, the parks, and how well it works with tram circulation coming from the Mickey and Friends structure. The thing they really blew it on was having Grizzly Peak stuck up at the north end of the park, facing south. DCA was the first Disney park ever where you couldn't enter the main gate and face forward towards the park's most recognizable and symbolic icon. You have to go all the way to the friggen' back of the park and then turn around 180 degrees to view Grizzly Peak, the park's symbolic icon. Marcie, in all her corporate apologetic zeal, will tell you that the reason they did that was that they wanted the sun to always be at the viewer's back (i.e., to the south) so they could easier take nice pictures of the icon. What a load of horse pucky, if that's the real reason. She said all Disney theme parks have you enter from the south, and go north to get to the park's main icon, and eventually, the back of the park. And that way you can take nice pictures of the castle, Tree of Life, or whatever. But that the limitations of the site forced DCA to have the entrance at the north end, facing Disneyland. And rightly so I might add. But to then walk in and face the mountain's a** end first???? Just so that you can eventually take better lit pictures???? Absolutely ridiculous. And oh yeah... interesting how Marcie forgot that Epcot's main entrance is on the north end of the park, too, just like DCA's. And yes, you get a great view of the park's signature icon right there at the gate. And yeah, you do have the option of walking until you are south of the sphere and then turning around and having the sun at your back when you take pictures. But at least, you're not staring at the backside of the icon when you're at the front side of the park. The designers of DCA knew how stupid it was to have the real main icon face away from you as you enter the park, so they tried to make up for that by placing that incredibly stupid looking sun icon in the middle, with the reflectors bouncing light back onto it, thinking THIS would be a memorable and acceptable signature park icon. What were they THINKING? Well, thankfully, much stronger talent than Barry Braverman and his staff are in charge of the place now. Hopefully, the announcements this week will include word of the planned removal of that yellow piece of trash and the silly tiled fountain underneath it, and in its place, something a lot more memorable and worthwhile. The recent proposal to reorient the main gate to the southern end was part of Tony Baxter's master plan to fix DCA. His idea was to essentially use DCA as a funnel to ultimately draw people up through and past the DCA attractions, shops, and restaurants and up into Disneyland. Baxter would have made DCA a gateless, freely opened up environment, where you could go into the the place without paying admission, and wander the shops and restaurants for free, but pay single admission prices to go on any of the attractions, or maybe get a day pass for the attractions. And of course, you would pay admission to then get into Disneyland. That's the only real serious proposal there was to moving the gate to the southern edge. No doubt the powers that be felt Baxter's idea of divorcing DCA from "stand alone gated park" status and making the place into some sort of open amusement mall was just a bit too weird for the company to swallow. I tend to agree. There has to be a way to make DCA a much better stand alone gated park, while leaving the entrance across from Disneyland, and addressing so much of the rest of the design and planning blunders that the original DCA was saddled with.
Originally Posted By gadzuux A southern gate is still possible, and I even think it's highly likely. Waaay back in the OP of the thread, part of this rumor was the construction of a new hotel on timon. It's easy to imagine that this new hotel will include an entry into the park. And it would be crazy to try and limit it to hotel guests only. Hopefully with this resort expansion we'll also see an expansion of the transportation system - I'm not sure if the monorail is up for the task, so it might be something else. But it will likely include a new southern station to link the new hotel, south park entrance and ACC with the rest of the resort.
Originally Posted By 2001DLFan <<The recent proposal to reorient the main gate to the southern end was part of Tony Baxter's master plan to fix DCA. His idea was to essentially use DCA as a funnel to ultimately draw people up through and past the DCA attractions, shops, and restaurants and up into Disneyland. Baxter would have made DCA a gateless, freely opened up environment, where you could go into the the place without paying admission, and wander the shops and restaurants for free, but pay single admission prices to go on any of the attractions, or maybe get a day pass for the attractions. And of course, you would pay admission to then get into Disneyland. That's the only real serious proposal there was to moving the gate to the southern edge. No doubt the powers that be felt Baxter's idea of divorcing DCA from "stand alone gated park" status and making the place into some sort of open amusement mall was just a bit too weird for the company to swallow. I tend to agree. There has to be a way to make DCA a much better stand alone gated park, while leaving the entrance across from Disneyland, and addressing so much of the rest of the design and planning blunders that the original DCA was saddled with.>> I don’t know, the potential for the DCA area under that concept sounds very intriguing. That system would allow for most shops and restraints to be upgraded the level that Downtown Disney has. The Hyperion Theater would be able to be upgraded to the Broadway level it was initially supposed to be, allowing for some real high end theatrical productions (that would actually EARN the company money instead of costing them).
Originally Posted By 2001DLFan <<The recent proposal to reorient the main gate to the southern end was part of Tony Baxter's master plan to fix DCA. His idea was to essentially use DCA as a funnel to ultimately draw people up through and past the DCA attractions, shops, and restaurants and up into Disneyland. Baxter would have made DCA a gateless, freely opened up environment, where you could go into the the place without paying admission, and wander the shops and restaurants for free, but pay single admission prices to go on any of the attractions, or maybe get a day pass for the attractions. And of course, you would pay admission to then get into Disneyland. That's the only real serious proposal there was to moving the gate to the southern edge. No doubt the powers that be felt Baxter's idea of divorcing DCA from "stand alone gated park" status and making the place into some sort of open amusement mall was just a bit too weird for the company to swallow. I tend to agree. There has to be a way to make DCA a much better stand alone gated park, while leaving the entrance across from Disneyland, and addressing so much of the rest of the design and planning blunders that the original DCA was saddled with.>> I don’t know, the potential for the DCA area under that concept sounds very intriguing. That system would allow for most shops and restraints to be upgraded the level that Downtown Disney has. The Hyperion Theater would be able to be upgraded to the Broadway level it was initially supposed to be, allowing for some real high end theatrical productions (that would actually EARN the company money instead of costing them).
Originally Posted By ArchtMig The Hyperion could still be upgraded, and might very well be according to Al Lutz. I think there should be a direct link to the Hyperion from outside the gates so that they actually can use it as a venue separate from the theme park.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "I have always felt that Downtown Disney needed to be more like CityWalk." Oh my. Isn't DTD doing quite well? If so, it seems to me that the retail mix is just fine. "Sure, they fixed up the pool, but the towers look hideous and are on the verge of collapse." They are ugly, but who told you that they are on the verge of falling down?
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror I hate CityWalk. It's the vulgar alternate-universe version of DTD. That said, DTD is kind of boring. It's nice if you spend that kind of money regularly, or just want to eat, or don't want much creativity in your entertainment options... I really wish it were more like the Florida version of Downtown Disney... injected with a little more personality. Right now it's not much more than a very nice outdoor mall. Maybe that's enough, but it's Disney... I want a little magic spark.
Originally Posted By jonvn I rather enjoy it. It's a place to go after you are done with the park to get something to eat or look around a little bit more. I did think they'd put in some more entertainment into it, like the DisneyQuest in Florida, but I don't think that's a very popular model.
Originally Posted By pwrof3 What I meant is that downtown disney needs cheaper restaurants for families who paid top dollar to go to the park and get a hotel room. Right now, the choice is either to spend more money on a nice dinner or head to an over-priced Denny's, IHOP, or McDonald's. >>They are ugly, but who told you that they are on the verge of falling down? >> Well, the main towers of the DL Hotel haven't been touched since they were built, so it would stand to reason that alot of refurb needs to be done. Sure, they have re-painted the building, but strip off the paint and I can guarantee that there are tons of structural cracks and whatnot.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Right now, the choice is either to spend more money on a nice dinner or head to an over-priced Denny's, IHOP, or McDonald's." I think that anyone visiting a Disney resort has to be acutely aware that the place is expensive. And as you stated, there are plenty of reasonably priced (comparatively speaking) national restaurant chains just outside the property on Harbor Blvd. There will likely be a few more when Garden Walk opens. "Well, the main towers of the DL Hotel haven't been touched since they were built, so it would stand to reason that alot of refurb needs to be done." Well yes, but as far as you know they are structurally sound and aren't about to tumble down, are they?
