Originally Posted By Goofyernmost No leobloom, I said it was business wide. It is a common thing now that an employee expects to be paid higher amounts of money and are basically off the street. No experience, no actual exposure to the public and no time spent learning their jobs. It is the I want the extra "right now", then I will give you what you want, attitude. The reality is that whether anyone likes it or not...the business is in charge. That is why they are call boss. If one refuses to do anymore than minimum wage work, they are not, under anyone's imagination be worth more than minimum wage. I do not know how Disney itself works or how they determine who should go up to the next level. Might be the biggest #@%&$ kissers in the business that achieve...but whatever it is the game has to be played because they have the power. I don't know for sure, but I can tell you this, if you are not worth more than minimum you will never be paid more than minimum. One can whine about that until the cows come home. Just like you will not buy a product for more than it is worth...people are a form of product that employers acquire. Fact of life! And we are talking about entry level positions here. I'd be willing to bet that people with experience in Disney like situations are either paid more to start of they rise up the scale quicker.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 Actually at one time as a Disney hourly CM you could top out at the top of your pay grade in five years. So if you were willing to hang in you would get decent raises that within five years would become a decent salary. Today you would have to work over 10 years to get topped out.
Originally Posted By leobloom Goof, your argument is why we have incompetent (and competent) CEOs being grossly overpaid and sending jobs overseas in order to pad profit margins. But I guess you don't have a problem with that, either, since "whatever it is the game has to be played because they have the power."
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Not to put to fine a point on it, but I was only top management in the company that I owned and operated for 14 years of my 40 plus year career. The rest of the time I was entry level or mid-management. I almost always started low and performed my way upward. Was the world a little different then? Yes, I'm sure it was! That didn't alter the fact that whenever I went into a new field, which was 5 times in my career, I didn't worry about my starting wage, I zeroed in on my potential wage. I did the extra and had the patience to wait. Disney, which is your primary focus, is in a unique position. Even though you don't recognize it, all new CM's start out entry level. None should be expecting automatic improvement in wages in just the few weeks you are talking about. Regardless of what ones personal opinion of oneself is...they are not the ones doing the judging. Also, all employee's have considered their supervisors and upper management to be idiots. There is nothing new about that. Be that as it may...they have the power to help or crush, like it or not. That also hasn't changed. If Disney is able to keep the parks staffed, at least enough to operate, and pay lower than wages in the area, then I have to disagree with you on a point. They certainly do feel that it is more prestigious to be a CM, then sell mcburgers or stock shelves. Otherwise that is where they would go and then Disney wouldn't have anyone to hire unless they increased wages. That doesn't appear to be happening. As far as CM's are concerned, it is pretty hard to send those jobs overseas, don't you think. Being a CM is not an easy job mentally. It requires patience and the ability to not feel superior to the guests, even though they might be. It is a service industry and having spent almost all my life dealing with the public, I know what that involves. At the same time standing in one spot and answering questions is not the most physically strenuous of job descriptions. I never said that I didn't have a problem with overpaid CEO's but they are there and they are paid by the people that actually operate the companies. The board of directors elected by the stockholders. So if you have a gripe, take it up with the stockholders. No one else has total control of that. Now to answer the question do I think that CM's are underpaid or not. Not if they just started. If they don't jump up considerably after the first year of proven performance then that is wrong. However, just like everything else in our economy, the answer lies in the supply and demand curve. If people are willing to start out at minimum wage to the degree that is necessary to staff the parks, then there is no way that any business, Disney included, will see a need to change anything. If employee's (CM's in this case) are unwilling to show their worth until they are rewarded ahead of time, then they are destined to be forced to move on or stay at the low rate. It is basic economics! Would it be nice it those overpaid CEO's were willing to take a cut in salary and funnel that down to the entry level folk? Yup, but not likely to happen, so as I said, you work with the system, whatever that may be. Otherwise it's like trying to move Mt. Everest (the real one) with a plastic sand shovel. Just for the sake of something to think about. If one was to increase everyone's salary that works for WDW just $1.00 per hour, so you have any idea what that comes to a week, month, or year? Didn't I read someplace that WDW has about 400,000 CM's so for just one hour per week it would be $400,000.00 or $1,734,000.00 per month or $20,800,000.00 per year for just one hour of work. That's a lot of hamburgers! I'd try to figure it out based on actual hours worked but I would run out of zeros at the end.
Originally Posted By TP2000 Goofyernmost, stop being so rational and mature and intelligent, it's ruining this thread! ;-) All I can add is this... When Disney CM's start complaining about their managers and say stuff like "Disney management doesn't want Cast Members to be happy", that totally loses the argument. It's simply untrue. Are there bad managers at Disney? Yeah, probably a few. Are there a whole bunch of average to good managers at Disney? More than likely. Are there some fabulous managers at Disney? Yup, they've got those too. But there isn't a Dairy Queen in America where some 19 year old kid thinks his manager is a doofus and is out to get him for no good reason. That's nothing exclusive to Disney.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 ""Today you would have to work over 10 years to get topped out."" Because the Union does not know how to negotiate and always comes in from a position of weakness.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 ""When Disney CM's start complaining about their managers and say stuff like "Disney management doesn't want Cast Members to be happy", that totally loses the argument. It's simply untrue."" And you have the knowledge and experience to say this because?????......because I DO........
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost OK, I'll bite! What reason would any manager have for wanting their staff to be unhappy? It's a certain path to no productivity whatsoever. So why?
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I have worked at Disney both as an hourly and a salaried CM in attractions. I also don't that managers are looking to make CM's unhappy. I believe that there has been a cultural change at the company and the parks in particular. When a manager came up through the attractions department as an hourly CM, they have a great understanding what that experience is like. When you hire people from outside the company they have no real understanding of the job or culture of the area they are in charge of. I also think that as the role of manager has changed from actually being in charge of an area to more a maintainter of the area you get a whole different experience. When you take essential parts of the job away like scheduling, training, maitainance away from the area managers their jobs are now more about keeping things moving and keeping CM's in line. They essentially become the bad guy of the company. They show up to make sure budgets are kept, lines are moving, CM's are doing their jobs and for most CM's that means they only see them when things aren't going right or when they are in trouble. While the division between mgmt and hourly CM's has always been there, I believe that over the past 10 years it has gotten worse as Disney has tried to standardize the roles of mgrs and hourly CM's. A manager today has about half the authority they did 10 years ago.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 A good example of this would be if you got sick. Years ago if you needed to call in sick you had to speak to a manager in your area. Today you call deployment and talk to either a voice mail or an hourly CM who doesn't know you or even care if you aren't coming in. It is all very impersonal.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 ""Today you call deployment and talk to either a voice mail or an hourly CM who doesn't know you or even care if you aren't coming in. It is all very impersonal."" That was actually a good thing. Sick or Personal. DONE. I can tell you that other companies down the road (by I-Drive) want an EXACT REASON why your not comming in.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom HMButler79, I believe you are making everyone's arguement for them. The point is that Disney has become just like everyone else on I-Drive. And when your getting what your preceive to be the same customer service or better customer service at an Ihop on I-Drive than Walt Disney World, then there is a problem. And the problem becomes even more recognizable when you visit another Disney park, or are use to another Disney park or Disney property, and the difference between preceived customer service between parks are night and day.
Originally Posted By tashajilek "or are use to another Disney park or Disney property, and the difference between preceived customer service between parks are night and day." Thats so true! There were times when my Husband and i were at the MK and we wished we were at DL. It is amazing how the customer service is so different and i was shocked that nobody else seemed to think anything of it. Besides the MK i cant say that i really had a problem anywhere else on Disney property.
