Originally Posted By RoadTrip Well, I guess you got me there jonvn... I’ll admit it. I really like watching kids get corn-holed. :-|
Originally Posted By jonvn "the Episcopalian church does not under some circumstances-- now no matter what side of the fence one is on in that argument - it is a MAJOR difference." So be an Episcopalian that does not believe in abortion, or go along with another church that feels like you do. It's not just the catholics who say that. "Most religiouspeople donot change their beliefs like they change their socks" I am not suggesting you do. An issue like this, however, would be a deal breaker for me, certainly. Aside from that, Episcopalians (for example) have about 95% the same beliefs. Almost identical, really. The net is an amazing thing. Here's actually an article about the differences between Episcopalians and Roman Catholics. <a href="http://en.allexperts.com/q/Episcopalians-944/different.htm" target="_blank">http://en.allexperts.com/q/Epi scopalians-944/different.htm</a> The main difference between the two? The authority of the pope. Otherwise, they are almost identical.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Shame on me. If there is a God, he's going to get me, because I'm laughing like crazy at some of this.
Originally Posted By Mr X **So the tithe money more likely goes into the monthly payments so they're covered for future rapes." congratulations-- truly one of the most insensitve and idiotic statements I have ever read here or anywhere....** Insensitive to who, the rapists? What the heck are you talking about? It's right there in black and white, in the link. All I did was point it out...hardly idiotic (although supporting an organization that needs rape insurance seems pretty idiotic to me, but so far I've tried to keep things civil). Like Jon said, you're getting pissed at the wrong people!
Originally Posted By jonvn "I really like watching kids get corn-holed." I never suggested you did. But I am seeing a completely irrational response here from some. I guess there simply isn't a good response as to why someone would stay associated with a group of people who have fostered child molestation.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I strongly feel that Bush has abandoned me, this country and the Constitution but it doesn't mean I'm renouncing my citizenship and moving to Canada." Bush will be gone in 18 months (tick tock tick tock). And you are not supporting him. That is different than this situation, where you have people supporting an institution that is basically criminal in nature.
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Originally Posted By vbdad55 what you dont freakin hear is that WE ARE PISSED at the priests that commiteed this and leadership that allowed it--that has been stated here often. Show me one person here who defends that ? YOU CAN'T. That DOES NOT make one change their religious beloefs. And your exaample above of the difference left out more serious differences that I have already listed- and they are important to me and many others, but reading is an art form when one is ranting on ..... so I am getting pissed at the right people, those who perpetrated this, and those who want to link every living Catholic to the crimes
Originally Posted By Mr X It's obvious to me, at this point, that RoadTrips only purpose in remaining in this conversation is to get my thread shut down. If that is the case, please go away. I feel this is an important issue and I'd like to continue discussing it, thanks.
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Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Bush will be gone in 18 months (tick tock tick tock). And you are not supporting him. That is different than this situation, where you have people supporting an institution that is basically criminal in nature." You completely missed my point, but it doesn't matter.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I feel this is an important issue and I'd like to continue discussing it, thanks.>> God. No guts. I was only at blow jobs and you wouldn't go all in. I give this thread the respect it deserves. None.
Originally Posted By jonvn "WE ARE PISSED" Yes. I understand that. But what I'm saying is not all that different than what a lot of people who are Catholic are doing, too. Did you read my link about the Episcopalians? A Catholic wants to switch. "I was brought up Catholic but now I have kids of my own and I am very displeased with my parish." It's not a crazy thing to suggest and say you should change. It's not impossible, and it's done all the time. "You completely missed my point, but it doesn't matter." I understood your point, but it is a weak analogy at best. A better analogy would be the boy scouts. Where if the scoutmasters hid and helped molesters they would be abandoned in droves.
Originally Posted By Mr X >>so I am getting pissed at the right people, those who perpetrated this<< And yet you continue to support them financially. >>and those who want to link every living Catholic to the crimes<< Okay, here goes nothing... If I was even partially aware of jews being killed during world war II, and yet voluntarily continued to be a member of the Nazi party and make donations to the party, would that be okay?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <"WE ARE PISSED" Yes. I understand that. But what I'm saying is not all that different than what a lot of people who are Catholic are doing, too. Did you read my link about the Episcopalians? A Catholic wants to switch.> I and other prefer to stay and try to force changes to fix the issue, not abandon it.... and funny you say I am not a member for 2000 years, but you bringing up the Crusades is OK-- how does that work ? as for someone who wants to change from Catholic to Episcopalian- that is their right and choice to be whoever they want to be...but it is not a mandate. There are people who convert to Catholicism every day also, and I hate to break it to you they are neither child molesteors nor do they approve of that activity. Change does not come easy, and life gives us many challenges-- I choose to stay and take them on as opposed to running
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <>>so I am getting pissed at the right people, those who perpetrated this<< And yet you continue to support them financially< do you read these 2 threads at all ? Apparently not. I already stated I stopped giving general money 3 years ago, I donate time and equipment to my local Catholic church so Iknow where the money goes. Many others doing the same as we try and change the system from within -- as opposed to cutting and running..
Originally Posted By jonvn "I and other prefer to stay and try to force changes to fix the issue, not abandon it." And you're going to do this, how, exactly? The only way to really fix it is to hit them where it hurts. In membership. By leaving you show the leadership that you can not accept such behavior. By staying, you give them reason to continue what they were before. "but you bringing up the Crusades is OK--how does that work ?" OK, want to go over 2000 years of abuse? Fine. It's a rather horrible history that you wish to defend somehow? I didnt' bring up the crusades here, and was focussing only on recent behavior. "There are people who convert to Catholicism every day also, and I hate to break it to you they are neither child molesteors nor do they approve of that activity." Again, I never said all catholics were child molesters. And while they may not approve of the activity directly, they are supporting it indirectly via their continued participation in an organization that has engendered it amongst its officials. "I choose to stay and take them on as opposed to running" If I were Catholic, I would work to change some things. I would work to change the birth control ideas, and the divorce ideas, and the celibacy ideas and divorce ideas, and several other things. That's what I would stay and work on. Those are the sorts of things at a level I would expect you to be talking about for what you are saying. But for something like this? No way. This is beyond just the idea of a grey area, and falls smack in the middle of flat out deal breaker. And if you truly want to be Roman Catholic, the best thing the regular folk could do is leave it right now, en masse, over this issue. It is the only way to make Rome stop this. Otherwise, it will just continue.
