Originally Posted By Mr X Hey Barboy...yeah the quake woke me up yesterday. Me no like. :O Eat the wafers? That seems bizarre. It is one way to get excommunicated though (desecration of the bread or some such rule...although I assume it would have to be intentional).
Originally Posted By Shooba Wow, we have legitimate criticism here of an organization that has covered up, enabled, and perpetuated child molestation, and most responses from religious types have been immature and irrational. You can be a Catholic without attending a church, but if you continue to provide money to an organization that purposely and consciously allowed child molesters to continue their acts, don't expect to be looked upon favorably.
Originally Posted By jonvn "And this is a guy who seems to post pretty normally usually." I know. I feel bad about it.
Originally Posted By Shooba What isn't true? Catholics are required to attend church? That would make things a bit more complicated, but I can't quite comprehend continuing to be a part of the organization if the offending parties are still allowed to be there...
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <And this is why the problem will not go away. I guess if one of these guys has their own kid molested, maybe the attitude will change. Until then, I guess it's not bad enough< again, you don't listen, NO ONE has said it's not bad - or horrid....but you stay the course with your mission
Originally Posted By Mr X vbdad, what do you think about that pope letter to the bishops? I found it pretty shocking myself (I think that's the biggest thing I think is wrong...about how the coverup went "all the way to the top", and yet they crown that guy pope!).
Originally Posted By jonvn I know you said that. I heard that. But that is not the point. The question is when does it become so bad that you will finally say enough? Is it when your own kid gets raped? And you found out that the molester was known to be one by the church, and put that guy in your parish? Would that do it for you? What if the guy took a machine gun and mowed down the first couple of pews, and the church said "eh..." and put him in another church, and bought him a gun? Your stance really does not fully address what has been said. Everyone knows you're not happy with what has happened, in the extreme. But everyone has some kind of breaking point. Apparently the covering up of child molesters isn't it. So what is?
Originally Posted By jonvn I think that letter just shows how pervasive the COVERUP has been. And for the umpteenth time, it's not the molesters that are the worst part of this, it's the enablers. That's why you'd leave, not because some freak touched a kid. That can happen anywhere. It is the response and the lack of compassion for the victims that is what makes the situation bad.
Originally Posted By Mr X Oh, definitely Jon. Isn't it illegal to order your employees to keep information secret regarding a criminal investigation? Guess not, if you're the under-Pope (or whatever he was at the time).
Originally Posted By jonvn Yes, it's called obstruction of justice. But that's in this country. It is criminal behavior, though.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Road Trip just doesn't buy into the extreme rhetoric. Deal with it.>> That's OK. I like watching X and jonvn engage in a little circle jerk.
Originally Posted By Mr X Definitely obstruction of justice. But that's just fine, they're "holy". *rolls eyes* These guys get more criminal and abhorant the more I learn. And that's the POPE, folks. Top dog, all that...yes. But hey...what can ya do, right? (pass the collection plate, please...ratzenberger needs a new palace)
Originally Posted By jonvn Sorry but that just goes to show further that you can't discuss this at all. Again, very telling. But what it comes down to is your support of people who have been involved in the coverup of child rape. Period. That is what you are doing. That it didn't happen in your specific church really is of no consequence. It happened over a large area with some very high officials being involved. That you feel it is something you can still be involved in is your issue. If your own child were raped, maybe it'd be different. But since it happened to someone ELSE, and someplace ELSE I guess it's ok that the church is responsible for it happening... That seems to be what I am getting from you guys. That and how I'm a vile person who shall burn in hell.
Originally Posted By Mr X **It happened over a large area with some very high officials being involved.** That's okay, Jon, I found our smoking gun. You can now say "the highest officials".
Originally Posted By ecdc I do undertand it - to a degree. I thought wahoo's comments some time ago were excellent on being Catholic vs. being a member of the Catholic church. There is a significant potion of one's identity tied up in their faith and religion. I haven't been to church for years, but I'm still Mormon. I always will be. And even though I can be extremely critical of my own faith, it still irritates the crap out of me when someone who's never been a part of that tradition criticizes it. I can criticize my dysfunctional mom all I want, but if someone else does it - watch out. Religions are very much like families. I forget that sometimes and am not as sensitive as I should be.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Sorry but that just goes to show further that you can't discuss this at all. Again, very telling." They (RT, vbdad, others) can discuss it just fine and have done a commendable of job of stating their views. However, it is YOU who isn't interested in a discussion. What you and X seek here is total capitulation to your viewpoint, especially in light of your oft-stated opinion that you think all religion is nothing more than superstition. You think your view is bolstered by the horrendous conduct of the priests and pope and whoever else is involved. Therefore, there is no grey area for you, just that you're right and everyone else is an idiot. It's a misanthropic view, but hey, you're entitled, both you and X. Just as they're entitled to believe their faith is bigger than any leader of their church, and anything, good or bad, that these leaders do. Since you two have no faith, you apparently cannot possibly understand their core argument that for them, their faith means more to them than leaving over something like this, even something as vile and disgusting as what has transpired. I'm on record as being someone who believes but has no one religion. I've said before, I go to the Church of Me. I live my life as best as I can, and try to treat others as I'd like to be treated. My life experiences have shown me first hand that there is more to life than what we can see in front of us. If you haven't had that experience, or think it's all full of hot air, then nobody here can help you. You and X are incapable of comprehending their point of view, no matter what you might say in response, because you relate to the topic in a different way than the rest of us. That's not a slam, it just is what it is. Your insistence on tying this to rape and condoning it and putting words in their mouth ("I'm a vile person"... oh boo hoo, jovn), is what evokes the frustrated responses, something that likely pleases you more than a little.
Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
