Originally Posted By alexbook >><<alexbook: Exactly. In D&D-speak, he's "Chaotic Neutral...>> You nerd! What a loser...pffft...Now Magic: The Gathering is DL to D&D's DCA! ;p << I knew I was laying myself open to jokes with that post, but I couldn't think of a better way to say what I meant. ;-) (And no way can you compare D&D to DCA! For one thing, it's twenty years older than MTG. I'd say it's Coney Island to MTG's DL, and yes, this is just about the nerdiest conversation I've had on LP, and that's saying something.)
Originally Posted By FiveBearRugs IT'S HERE!!!!!!!!!! THE DIVA IS BACK!!!!!!!!!!! <a href="http://www.amazon.com/USAopoly-My-Disney-Villains-Monopoly/dp/B00168PO6U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1216059511&sr=8-1" target="_blank">http://www.amazon.com/USAopoly...1&sr=8-1</a>
Originally Posted By SoThisIsLove 5BR, I so agree about the Mad Hatter being beloved in the parks. He just so rocks! My favorite You Tube of him is when he's on the canal boats with Alice and Peter Pan and they're trying to get him to kiss Alice. Yeah...."villains" is stretching it when it comes to describing a few of these characters, that's for sure. Monopoly: I wouldn't want to be Frollo's hat for anything. He's the baddest of the bad. He's awful! Disney Archives says: "Frollo is a tragic figure who is doomed by his own sense of self-righteousness and obsession for control." I can't find any pity for him at all. Can you enlighten me on this?
Originally Posted By FiveBearRugs Frollo is a very complex character; he wants to do what's right, and wants to be in control. He feels that he's doing the city by ridding the city of "vermin" like the gypsies, even though they have done no wrong (in the film, that is). It's not so different from city officials today who want to get rid of squatters and control the homeless situation. He feels that he is just, yet does not (and will not) help those who are less fortunate than him. His lust for Esmerelda conflicts with his hatred of the gypsies. He wants to love her and be with her, but because she is a gypsy, he automatically brands her as a witch. In other words, if he had opened his eyes and his heart to the citizens of Notre Dame, things would have been different.
Originally Posted By basil fan By that definition, wouldn't pretty much every character in Alice in Wonderland be a villain? The Dodo tries to burn Alice and even the mild-mannered King is pretty eager to have her head off, even if it's only as his wife's yes-man. P.S. An Eggman is an agent of FOWL in the Darkwing Duck TV series. Kolchak: The Night Stalker <a href="http://www.whatsitsgalore.com/glitch/knglitch.html" target="_blank">http://www.whatsitsgalore.com/...tch.html</a>
Originally Posted By FiveBearRugs <<basil fan: By that definition, wouldn't pretty much every character in Alice in Wonderland be a villain?>> That was one of the problems with that film: everyone was in a gray area. With the exception of the White Rabbit and the Queen of Hearts, there were no characters that were truly evil or truly good. Everyone in Wonderland was crazy, rude, impatient and/or sometimes misunderstood Alice for other things (Flowers, weed; Dodo, monster; Pigeon, serpent! Serpent! Serrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrppppppppppppppppppppppppppent!), and there were some who showed some sympathy (King of Hearts, the Tulgey Wood creatures in the "Very Good Advice" number). The Dodo was nice to Alice during the Caucus Race; The only reason he was trying to burn her was to get rid of the monster; after all, she was about 10 feet tall and was wedged in the house; I love the sight gag where she scratches her "hair"...in this case, the roof of the White Rabbit's house. Just about every version of Alice has the Queen of Hearts as the villain, and understandably so. How else do you market an ill-tempered, short-tempered tyrannical monarch who has a fetish for beheading everyone and everything? In the book, however, the Queen is not the Villain. In fact, there really are no Villains in the original stories. The Queen of Hearts was simply another cranky character that Alice encountered. By the way, if any of you have read the Alice stories, you'll notice that the "red" characters such as the chess pieces and Queen of Hearts are hostile and intimidating, whereas the "white" chess pieces are kind, gentle and somewhat goofy.
Originally Posted By FiveBearRugs I also own The Annotated Alice. AWESOME, AWESOME version of Alice for the Carroll/Wonderland fans out there!
Originally Posted By wonderingalice *LOL* FBR... You're a rug after my own Queen of Hearts. (Whatever the heck THAT means! ;-)
Originally Posted By FiveBearRugs My local Fry's Electronics still has the Richard-n-Kate Burton version of Alice in stock, along with the 1985 CBS version, the Disney version and the 1960s BBC surreal version with Peter Sellers as the King of Hearts. The latter version was set in Victorian England and all of the characters were "human", ie the White Rabbit was a guy in a white suit and the Queen of Hearts looked like Queen Victoria. I also remember a version that I saw on HBO when I was a kid; I vaguely remember some of the scenes, but this would be the one with Fiona Fullerton (A View to a Kill) as Alice, Peter Sellers as the March Hare and Dudley Moore as the Dormouse. When the film was released on video and DVD, the latter two got top billing on the cover, lol. A pre-Phantom Michael Crawford also played the White Rabbit in this musical version. I really did not care for the 1999 NBC version. It was 3 hours and included scenes from Looking Glass (flowers, Tweedles, White Knight) as well. It starred Tina Majorino as Alice, Whoopi Goldberg as the Cheshire Cat, Martin Short as the Mad Hatter and Gene Wilder as the Mock Turtle. There was supposed to have been a movie version based on the Alice computer game (the really, really DARK one that came out a couple of years ago), but I think those plans were scrapped. The latest news is that Tim Burton is directing a version with Sarah Michelle Gellar as Alice.
Originally Posted By alexbook 5BR inspired me to start scanning IMDB for other "Alice" movies. "Alicja" sounds intriguing, at least from the user comments (<a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083537/usercomments" target="_blank">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt00...comments</a>): "I don't recommend this movie, but I felt like I had to comment about it somewhere just to get it out of my system. There should be a support group for people who have seen this film." Then there's the X-rated porn musical "Alice in Wonderland" from 1976. Or the "Care Bears Adventure in Wonderland." Who knew?
Originally Posted By FiveBearRugs I remember the Care Bears version; the Cheshire Cat was literally very colourful, at least that's how I remember him. The Jabberwocky was also in that one. There's a direct-to-video animated version of Looking Glass with Phyllis Diller as the White Queen, Jonathan Winters as the Tweedles and Mr. T as the Bandersnatch; the Red Queen is the Villain in this one. And...a version with Kate Beckindale (sp?) as Alice and Ian Holm as the White Knight.
Originally Posted By basil fan Years ago there was a musical cartoon in which Fred Flintstone went to Wonderland.
Originally Posted By FiveBearRugs And in the Hanna-Barbera version, I think it was called "AiW or What's a Nice Girl Doing in a Place Like This?", and Fred and Barney were the Caterpillar. And...in Season 5 of the Muppet Show, the Brooke Shields episode was Alice-themed, with Brooke as Alice, Floyd as the Caterpillar, Dr. Teeth as the Cheshire Cat, Gonzo as the Mad Hatter and Miss Piggy as, who else? The Queen of Hearts.
Originally Posted By wonderingalice I saw the X-Rated version when it first came out (it was like "XXX;" the minimum age for admission was 18, which I was.) Alice was played by Kristine DeBell. A couple of years later, "Meatballs" was released and then "I Wanna Hold Your Hand." I recognized her immediately in both of those... And then she dropped off the radar. *LOL*
