Originally Posted By Dabob2 <If your a parent and irresponcible, then your a parent and irresponcible it doesn't matter if you have one child or 20.> Well, except to those 19 additional persons.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <All though it is possible to overcome an upbringing such as this, look at one of the Westboro sons,> Correct. <it is not likely.> Also correct. Look at the rest of the Westboro clan!
Originally Posted By mawnck >>I don't see anyone in the Liberal media saying anything about it.<< No need to state the obvious, is there? >>Brainwashing can provide significant results.<< For instance .... ermmmm, nope, too easy.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Are you saying that had the Duggars not been reality TV stars that their life style is ok?<< Not exactly. But being realty stars makes it even worse, because now it becomes an issue of finances rather than just some deeply held beliefs. I don't think there's anything that can be done to stop people from having all the kids they want, so long as they provide for them. There is a stunt aspect to having all these kids, combined with a hardline religious view that makes it all quite disturbing to me. So long as there is no apparent physical danger to these kids, the state needn't step in. But that doesn't mean I think the kids are growing up in an environment that is ideal. >>And apparently no one has a problem with that!<< Huh? I have a huge problem with that. But that isn't what this topic is about.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder The last time this topic came up I wrote this- it still applies: The following is from here. I wrote it: <a href="http://mb.laughingplace.com/Ms....asp?c=1" target="_blank">http://mb.laughingplace.com/Ms....asp?c=1</a> I don't care that they are debt free. I just don't. If saying they are debt free in some way justifies all these kids, well, I don't think it does. So big deal, they're debt free. The mother ceased being a mother several kids ago. She's nothing more than a baby factory now. She can love them all she wants, but the well documented fact remains the actual raising and mothering of the younger kids is being done by the older ones. There's no way some of these kids can make a conscious, free decision that they want to parent their younger siblings, and it's wrong to put them in that position. Moreover, as has been said elsewhere, these kids can't all possibly get enough individual attention that they need from their biological parents. It is impossible to say that the bond that formed with kids 1-4 is as strong as the bonds that formed, if at all, with 15-18. Kid 18 is going to look at a brother or sister more as a mother or father figure than the actual parents. That's indefensible. The only way to defend it is if the bio parents were dead. and <a href="http://mb.laughingplace.com/Ms...-P-4.asp" target="_blank">http://mb.laughingplace.com/Ms...-P-4.asp</a> "Having 18, 19 kids simply isn't normal. When you start to rely on the older kids to parent the younger ones, a boundary has been crossed that never needed to be. They cease to become a family. They become a small business instead, one that delegates authority. The mother and father aren't parents to their kids anymore, they're CEOs. Nothing says love and nurture like a performance evaluation." And then, at the end of the thread linked here, poster velo writes this: 73 velo Tue 12/22/2009 4:57p LadyKluck hit the nail on the head, for me. This woman has been told that it's getting more & more dangerous for her to try and carry another child and she just keeps intentionally getting pregnant. After this latest medical issue it's doubtful she'll be able to carry to term (safely) again, IMHO. Where's the responsibility in that? velo poses a great question.
Originally Posted By HongKongFoooy this lady reminds me of the andrew dice clay's joke. go dice man!!!!! ###the old lady and the shoe had so many kids, her uterous fell out oooooooohhh### lol!!!
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Apparently, she miscarried yesterday. Given the complications with the last kid, she should just stop now before her children lose their mother.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka Wouldn't it just be incredible if religious zealots realized that maybe God gave us all the ability to use REASON and allowed us to gain knowledge through science in order for us to make choices about what is truly right and wrong? What if THAT is really the true test of being on this Earth? What if the archaic stories in the Bible were God's way of testing people's ability to truly understand the messages in them and use them (or even SHUN them) as needed? God seems to be a guy who likes to test out peoples' faith; he likes us to use our brains and hearts to cope with all of life's challenges. What if he wants us to TRULY use our brains and hearts and not just follow a book written thousands of years ago? What if we're really being judged on our ability to weed out the things in the Bible that are NOT true and are NOT to be followed? What if "free will" isn't just about coming to him through a perfectly constructed channel but specifically about coming to know him by determining the EXACT right way for YOU and only you, not following any rules at all? Sure makes a lot more sense in my (supposedly God-given) mind.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "Apparently, she miscarried yesterday. Given the complications with the last kid, she should just stop now before her children lose their mother." Wow, that's sad. I sure hope they take some time and reflect on this. Maybe they should never have announced #20...
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Mele, you know I like and respect you (I hope you do), but your post in 63 really cementated your status of awesomeness to my mind. If more people put faith in themselves rather than Jesus or God, and make a positive difference, if there is a judgement or afterlife, I would have thought you would get more brownie points using your faculties, then being a hollow vessle of dogma.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I have faith in myself because of God, or at least in part because of him. (I admit I'm pretty good too...but I need God as much as I need my wife to bring out the very best.)
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Lol, that's cool Skipper. what frustrates me is the folks that put all their faith in god, and his plans, and do little for themselves. If there is a God, hopefully any judgements would be based on ethos, the choices we make, and the actions we take. And yes, in my case, I think my wife was a gift to help me be better too (shame she sees the worst)
Originally Posted By Tikiduck Its not the faith in God that bugs me so much as the blind faith. To just cast your faith to the whims of a notoriously indifferent "God" just seems so mentally weak. Funny thing is, the religious call it spiritually strong. This woman is well past her prime childbearing years, physically demonstrated with the past two attempts, and with 19 children already, another attempt would be insane.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka They really are incredible famewhores. <a href="http://gawker.com/5868457/here-are-some-tender-photos-of-the-duggars-miscarried-20th-child" target="_blank">http://gawker.com/5868457/here...th-child</a>
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 Wow...I was really hoping they wouldn't do anything like this. Man, they need to take a break from their show. It makes me wonder how they broke the news to all of the other kids, especially the younger ones. I mean, if they were handing out these pictures at a memorial service for her...I'm sure the siblings were there too...ugh.
