Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Do they expect anyone at McDonald's to be a long-term employee these days?< No company wants anyone for more than 5 years today - at almost any job, that is part of the HR process. No pension concerns, no medical concerns - hire them, burn them for 5 years and let them go. Churn and burn...no long term commitments
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>And I can tell you that if you can talk your kids into going into engineering, they are going to have potential employers flinging themselves at them. Especially companies that for security reasons can't hire foreign nationals.<< Actually engineering isn't that great. They earn a fraction of what investment bankers get, and once you turn 40 you are considered damaged goods.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <and once you turn 40 you are considered damaged goods.< you're suddenly looked at as ' consultant material' but too expensive to carry on the payroll. certain engineering fields hotter than others...chemical being a good track right now. but again, short of the feds, or a company that is under fed GSA contracts, a good number of engineers in Bangalore for 1/3 the $ is how the large firm viewing it.
Originally Posted By DlandJB You are right -- there are a huge number of engineers overseas and they are growing their own. China has had an explosion of engineering students. The government contractors are very concerned that we won't be able to keep up. Another big and growing area -- especially in Southern California and Virginia - is biomedical engineering. And some of those students do go to med school too.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo There is another angle too. I think obtaining a bachelors is more than just the formal education. For those that go away to study, it is a chance to mature and learn to stand on your own two feet. In the Uk, I and a number of my peers became very independent very young. Those that didn't go to Uni or lived at home, still lived at home in their late 20's and didn't seem to climb the ladder quickly. Those college years are a chance to play, grow and make relatively safe mistakes. And then add the piece of paper, it's a door opener for interview.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Well there are many opinions here about college. I'll share mine although not directly asked for...it's very simple. I will do everything within my power as a human being to make sure my children go AWAY to college. Minimum 4 years, strongly reccomended to continue on to grad school, and passivly encouraged to go all the way. My 5 year old wants to be a "Fire Fighter." That is all well and good and if he still wants that after college I will encourage him 110%. With a college degree he will be more upwardly mobile than most of his contemporaries. Case in point: My cousin, whom I love dearly from childhood is a retired Air Force Jet engine repair instructor (not suree the exact title). He now works for Lockheed, getting full retirement from the Military, and making 5 times the salary for Lockheed. However, they want to promote him. His superiors can't because he doesn't have a formal college degree. He is going to night school to earn the piece of papaer. I will agree that at his age , with his experiece, it really is just a peice of paper. However, for youngsters starting out at the beginning of a career, it is SO much more than that.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer A college degree opens up doors that otherwise would be closed. Sure, you can make a decent living without one, but you choices are going to be limited.
Originally Posted By avromark <<A college degree opens up doors that otherwise would be closed. Sure, you can make a decent living without one, but you choices are going to be limited.>> During recessions could it also be viewed as a negative? "Over Qualified"? For instance my "boss" only has a BSc.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer I doubt a bachelor's would be seen as an overqualification for any job these days. Regardless, though, would you rather be overqualified to ask people if they want fries with that, or underqualified to be the fry-slinger's boss?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo What is interesting, by the time a paid off my education, it was time to get married. Got that paid off and had a kid. Kind of got over that hurdle and got a mortgage. Just about the time that's paid off, my kids will be degree age. But without that initial debt for my education, I think I would have struggled much much more with the other expenses.
Originally Posted By avromark I don't know at this point in my life I still own owe money for OSAP, I had to purchase in an "entry level" neighbourhood. But that said I live in a University Town, so maybe my idea of education is skewed (My parents house backyard faces an Engineering building).
Originally Posted By avromark Dave I have my education debt and a mortgage, haven't found a Mrs. Avro yet though. But I think I work less hours then you do now
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Ya, but maybe you did it right? I think a number of people own their 1st home before kids. We didn't because we chose to spend the money on travel. The other great educator.
Originally Posted By avromark No I bought since where I live housing is inexpensive I bought my house for just over 200,000 it's 1800 sq. ft. up, and 2600 sq. ft. down. During my youth we also nearly lost our house once so I don't really intend to be homeless. Why would I pay a thousand for a month for a 1300 sq ft apartment? I guess it is all in your priorities, mine was to complete university, buy a house, have a family. I've had 1 vacation this year (and it was short) But then again our universities seem to be cheaper (but also less prestigious). One of my friends went to Oxford. I kind of wish I did now, would have been interesting. In addition to higher education though, values, drive / competition and other factors seem to play a role. Where I live no one seems to be pushing their kids to go to university, in my parents neighborhood it's just expected you do. My parents moved to the other side of town once during my childhood. I found that teachers / students didn't have much drive. I pretty much learned what they were teaching a few grades ago. Had a "fun" time catching up when my parents moved back to a decent neighbourhood.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo "No I bought since where I live housing is inexpensive I bought my house for just over 200,000 it's 1800 sq. ft. up, and 2600 sq. ft. down. During my youth we also nearly lost our house once so I don't really intend to be homeless." Wow, not the case here. We paid $300,000 US for our 950 sq foot house in an entry level area. It was either, save $30,000 for the deposit, or travel and live life before having kids. We opted for the latter, but sometimes I wonder if we would have been better off with a house in earlier years. Then again, we toured about 20 countries over 8 years - managing 1-2 Disney trips a year. Wonderful times.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip You can still succeed without a college degree. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Michael Dell are all proof of that. A college degree is also no guarantee of a great job. There are PhD's working for the college I work for making 70% of what I make (without a degree). But I still think college is very important. College provides a broad background of knowledge and gives you experience with problem solving and research that will be of benefit to almost anyone throughout their life. Even if your goal is to be a machinist (which we need at lot more of by the way), I think having a degree in addition to your technical training will make you a better machinist than you would have been otherwise.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I have an issue now though. There is an expectation for me to do either my MBA or an alternative Masters Programme and another pro Management qualification. Finding the time and resource could prove very difficult.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo True trippy. I know a lot of imbeciles that are highly educated. I also know some very intelligent, wise and successful drop outs. Education does not guarantee anything. But it can help.
Originally Posted By avromark <<"No I bought since where I live housing is inexpensive I bought my house for just over 200,000 it's 1800 sq. ft. up, and 2600 sq. ft. down. During my youth we also nearly lost our house once so I don't really intend to be homeless.>> Clarification 2600 sq. ft. total - I meant to type basement not down. Time to drive back to work though. Trades are good as well, most of the homeowners where I live are trades people.
