Originally Posted By ChiMike You fly internationally TDLFAN, right? My negative remarks are more geared towards the cattle shipments occuring domestically, especially on a route like CHI-MCO.
Originally Posted By beamerdog >>funny you mention Macy*s because that is where I usually go shopping when I am home and that is where I get the best sales prices and the best service in retail I have gotten in town.<< <<<<was a personal and corporate shopper for Macy's by Appointment a few years back. Free service, btw. Re: concierge. We've stayed concierge at the poly twice. Not worth it. We've also stayed at concierge at the YC several times. That's worth it with the kids, but a "luxury" when it's just DH and myself. I love the extra service. We did have breakfast there, and it was nice to have the rest of the perks without standing in line somewhere. That being said, sometimes when we go I'm happy with POR. Not thrilled to say the least with POP and the like as we do spend time at the resort and our "kids" are in their 20's.
Originally Posted By danyoung >I drive to Orlando. Don't lump me in there. I drive even when airfare is slightly less, that's not being cheap.< I'm with you, buddy. I'll drive at least once a year to Florida from Dallas. The road trip is part of the fun, even though with gas and hotels and food it's much more expensive than the $190 round trip I can get from Airtan.
Originally Posted By ChiMike Yeah Dan. The thing is I normally have 1-3 other passengers so it's easier to justify the gas expenense over airfare. The only problem is the more passengers I have to justify the cost the more I'm being yelled at to have more than 3 gas/bathroom stops in 17 hrs!
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< >>And don't get me started on low cost vs legacy airlines. I'll just say - I don't see the difference in service so why should any airline think they can justify a higher fare for the same route.<< Type of aircraft (the bigger the plane, the more crew members needed per the FAA minimuns) may have to do something about that >>> I would think that has nothing to do with it. The FAA requires one cabin crew per 50 passengers or portion thereof. So, although an aircraft with twice as many passengers has twice as many cabin crew, presumably they're selling twice as many tickets, so it would be a wash, assuming that they're filling up the seats to the same degree. <<< not to mention having to compensate somehow for the airline's ability to regard free loading frequent flyers with free "first" class upgrades, versus aircraft and airlines that only offer one class of service at low cost. >>> Yet, those premium cabin seats are occasionally sold at really high prices (like $7000 rt from US to Japan). And in others, they are upgades from full-fare coach (or discount coach with a surcharge in addition to miles). I'm sure that flights come from time to time when there are many seats sold at the high prices due to some special event that a group is traveling to, and those flights must be extremeley profitable. On the flights where there aren't so many full fares, then you can at least keep the regular customer happy and upgrade their paid economy seat, often collecting a surcharge in addition the base fare and in addition to miles, which then opens another seat in the back which can then be sold at regular prices to another passenger. <<< Yet. You are sometimes getting more for less... reason why Southwest is killing the rest of the airline business. >>> Paradoxically to some, Southwest has been on the leading edge of allowing freeloading by some passengers. Looking back on my travel on Southwest during the last year, I flew 11 "free" segments and 1 revenue segment. Of course, the "free" segments were paid for by money paid to Southwest by American Express, at my estimate of at least $100 per segment. And, Southwest seems to be very happy to take the business, and managed to turn in profitable quarters time and time again.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >>That is very paranoid, buddy.<< <<Is it though? >> Honestly? ... Yeah, it is. There is no quicker, safer way to travel than by air. I don't know why people have such unnatural fears about dying in flaming fireballs from the sky when your chances of winning the lottery or getting struck by lighting or finding a Disney exec that understands China is far greater. How many people are dying in fireballs of death on the road right now? I guess people tell themselves they have control when they're driving, but the reality is they don't. I managed to drive since age 15 without as much as a fender bender until two years ago when a woman ran a stop sign in her new black 350Z (out of a WalMart, no less) and tried to make an illegal left turn. We hit almost head on at about 40-45 mph and there was no way of making any evasive manuever. We put our lives on the line every day. I feel much safer in the air than on the ground. <<There is a little truth to it in this post-9/11 world where jets are overrunning the runway into city streets and are having landing gear malfunctions every 60-90 days.>> That's exaggeration and you know it. I can only think of two incidents -- the SW plane in Chicago last Dec. and the JetBlue flight in LA last Sept. ... The first was human error mixed with weather. The latter mechanical. Every person walked away without a scratch. Do you know how many flights there are daily? Again, I just chalk up fear of flying to be something irrational. <<What IS impressive is that all of those recent landing gear malfunctions have resulted in safe landings. Kudos to the pilots.>> They are trained professionals (as are the flight cabin crews). They above all else are trained for safety. They likely won't have to ever put that training into practice, but I'm damn glad they have it!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Again, I just chalk up fear of flying to be something irrational. < I didn't fly for a 2 year period..this was after I sat by a television with my friend & co -worker whose brother was on the Sioux City flight in July of 1989-- we watched the landing while at a work conference at a Wisconsin resort. His brother wasn't one of the ones who made it. While to this day it makes me ill to think about it, I too stopped flying for a while and almost scuttled my career in the process.... I did not however ever step foot inside another DC-10 after the two events that involved Chicago however...I would always ask what the plane was - infact it was one of the reasons I flew Deltas a lot then because they had the L10-11's and not Dc-10's It took me a while to get over, but again I personally knew someone who did die in a plane accident...and it made it totally different than watching the United Flight 90 go down next to O'Hare while we were in an office bulding about 2 miles away -- we didn;t see the plane go down but we watched the fire from the office... But you are right, we take our lives in our hands every day...in cars / elevators - crossing the street....when you assess the risk it is relatively small...but is there a risk , sure.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>We put our lives on the line every day. I feel much safer in the air than on the ground.<< I agree completely.. That's why I have no problem admitting to my own paranoia. It's irrational, but I can't shake it. Don't get me wrong. I still will fly to the East & West coasts every year. I just don't feel as safe as I did in the past. And when it comes to Florida and the potential of Chicago delays, lost luggage, crazy passengers, I rather just enjoy the drive through TN. >>That's exaggeration and you know it.<< Again, absolutely. I'm unashamed. I wish I was some guy with my head in the sand who floated through life blissfully; with the financial problems and the track record of the airline industry over the last 5 years, my senses are a little more heightened now when I strap myself into an aluminum tube guzzling combustible fuel 30,000 feet in the air. >>I can only think of two incidents -- the SW plane in Chicago last Dec. and the JetBlue flight in LA last Sept. ... The first was human error mixed with weather. The latter mechanical. Every person walked away without a scratch. Do you know how many flights there are daily? Again, I just chalk up fear of flying to be something irrational.<< Kind of like Vbdad's example, I flew into Midway from L.A. earlier in the day of the Dec. SWA Midway accident. It certainly made me think. Especially now when I DRIVE by the airport with my loved ones! I have heard of at least 3 landing gear incidents recently, Jet Blue, Texas (I think AA), and O'Hare (AA). Not debating you Spirit, just trying to flesh out my wacky reasoning.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >> took me a while to get over, but again I personally knew someone who did die in a plane accident...and it made it totally different than watching the United Flight 90 go down next to O'Hare while we were in an office bulding about 2 miles away -- we didn;t see the plane go down but we watched the fire from the office...<< That was a HORRIFIC accident. It's tough for me to drive near even to this day. It, and Iowa, are both little tidbits stored in my head that tip my otherwise rational scales.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 My college age daughter refuses to fly any more -- her volleyball team flight coming back from Texas this fall/winter had an issue and lost about 5,000 feet of altitude - abrupty, then continued to lose altitude and to her her and her teammates tell it they were pointed south so to speak, they leveled the plane off at 10,000 feet-- the plane made an emergency landing in Tulsa , Oklahoma and after they deplaned - her coach rented 2 extended mini vans and drove to Chicago where their last match was - she has 2 round trip anywhere in the US tickets in her room she claims she will never use -- we'll see so although nothing happened.per se....it was enough to turn her off for the time being.... In my times as a corporate auditor when I was younger... I flew maybe 10 legs a month...( sometimes went out to one city for a few days - then on to anotherbefore home) -- had an incident at O'Hare where they landed a plane in front of ours taking off - ending up in the grassy area and had to be pulled out after the pilot stopped our plane ( the reason I know wha happened is he left the link open as I used to like to listen to the pilot - tower talk) - lost a luggage door seal on one plane and cabin filled with nasty fuel smell , was on a plane that had a small kitchen fire...and one where the pilot and tower decided t land a plane for a stopover in St Louis when we could see a funnel on the ground - off to our right - couldn't tell how far -- and we came down almost sideways it felt and landed so hard he took out most of the tires..... so incidents do occur - they just rarely end in fatalities...that is a true statement. now again I flew more than most people ever will...so my odds were much higher. btw- 3 of the 4 incidents ( door and kitchen fire, and St Louis landding ) were on TWA -- I added them to my DC-10 list after the last one.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< My college age daughter refuses to fly any more -- her volleyball team flight coming back from Texas this fall/winter had an issue and lost about 5,000 feet of altitude - abrupty, then continued to lose altitude and to her her and her teammates tell it they were pointed south so to speak, they leveled the plane off at 10,000 feet-- the plane made an emergency landing in Tulsa , Oklahoma >>> Did the oxygen masks drop right away? If so, then the "losing altitude quickly" was likely an emergency *controlled* descent that the pilots will do when cabin pressurization is lost in order to get the aircraft down to where the outside air is breathable. I think this tends to freak a lot of people out - I'd like to think I'd remain as calm as would be possible given the circumstances. Now, if we went into a dive without oxygen mask drop, that would be something to worry about. I occasionally get worried for a few moments in flight, but am able to put mind over matter in most cases. I have two friends that have severe flight issues: one has extereme anxienty and must take medication, and the other has claustrophobia and must medicate for that. I can only very vaguely relate to what those situations must be like, so I can only imagine a serious episode and am glad that it doesn't happen to me.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< not to mention having to compensate somehow for the airline's ability to regard free loading frequent flyers with free "first" class upgrades, versus aircraft and airlines that only offer one class of service at low cost. >>> As I mentioned it before, each coach passenger that gets a "free" upgrade is still paying their base coach fare, plus frees up a seat to be resold to another passenger. It almost seems that you're suggesting an all-coach configuration would be better? Certainly, Southwest has been successful with this in the US domestically, but do you think it would be economically viable for trans-oceanic scheduled service? That is, a carrier that just had nothing but economy seats and a reasonable price, and just didn't mess with a loyalty program of any type?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Did the oxygen masks drop right away? If so, then the "losing altitude quickly" was likely an emergency *controlled* descent that the pilots will do when cabin pressurization is lost in order to get the aircraft down to where the outside air is breathable. I think this tends to freak a lot of people out - I'd like to think I'd remain as calm as would be possible given the circumstances. Now, if we went into a dive without oxygen mask drop, that would be something to worry about. < the masks did not drop right away, it was not controlled -- no warning -- something with a rear stabilizer that snapped.....stuff flying all thru the cabin....luckily great pilots who worked thru it -- the landing was an emergency landing at Tulsa - as it was the closest airport at the time -
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<<the masks did not drop right away, it was not controlled -- no warning -- something with a rear stabilizer that snapped >>> Ooh. "Snapped" doesn't sound like something that's supposed to happen with a critical part of the airplane. I'm glad everyone is okay!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Yeah so am I, however I now have a family member who will not even think of flying again....I am hoping that passes...as we want to go to Europe in 2008 -- for my 30th wedding anniversary and the QE II is one option we looked at buy howdy, will that take a bite out of the budget...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I can certainly understand how an 'incident' on an aircraft can be scary, but my take is you have to get right back on the horse. Imagine if everyone in a car accident never drove or rode in one again. FWIW, I had three somewhat scary incidents -- and I average 20,000-30,000 miles a year in the air. Once we were coming into South Florida and descending over north Florida thru some very strong, nasty, summer thunderstorms. Lightning was everywhere and I've never felt such turbulence before. Then about six years ago I was on an air rage flight as a rowdy bunch of drunks (it was a flight to Las Vegas of course) got nasty and one threw a drink a flight attendent. Wound up in Albuquerque with FBI agents racing on the plane with guns drawn. That was fun ... especially after the 20 minutes after the captain came over the PA and said 'Folks we've got some people onboard who don't know how to act on an jet. For the safety of all onboard we've requested an emergency landing at the nearest airport that can handle a 757. We'll be on the ground in New Mexico shortly.' ... and BTW, these people (the ones who got physical with the flight attendent anyway) were seated in the row in front of me. Not fun. Third incident was my first post-9/11 flight. Fort Lauderdale to LAX. Plane took off with Tropical Storm Michelle battering the area with strong winds and rain. As soon as we were off the runway 10 seconds, the plane lurched strongly to the right. That was probably the worst of the three, but in hindsight, it was likely just great flying by the pilots, who were compensating for the winds buffetting the plane. I guess the bottom line is people react very irrationally when it comes to flying and I'm not quite sure what it is other than a lack of control and an ignorance over what is 'normal.' I once had a woman SCREAM when our plane (one of my few SW flights ever) turned to lineup with the airport when landing in Manchester, N.H. That scared the crap out of me. Not the plane descending and turning, I knew that was normal, but the screaming. IT was a 'we're all gonna die' deal!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I guess the bottom line is people react very irrationally when it comes to flying and I'm not quite sure what it is other than a lack of control and an ignorance over what is 'normal.' < if one has been thru an incident that cold have ended tragically..then I do not see it as irrational at all....I agree flying is safer than driving, but one incident can change an outlook on that. After 3 what I would call fairly concerning incidents I still fly - but I have to admit the time I did not after I lost a friend on a flight - I did not view as irrational...nor did I view as irrational not flying on a DC-10 after numerous incidents in a very short period of time. now about the control thing -- I do have to have ( or at least strongly prefer) a window seat...now why I've never known..naybe it makes me feel more in control even though I'm not btw..there are plenty of people who never drive again after an accident - especailly a serious one..so it's not just flying.
Originally Posted By Labuda "I'm with you, buddy. I'll drive at least once a year to Florida from Dallas. The road trip is part of the fun, even though with gas and hotels and food it's much more expensive than the $190 round trip I can get from Airtan." Hotels? Dude, isn't less than 24 hours to get there - only about 19 from way down here in Austin (assuming you don't have the horrendous detour we had thanks to that dang hurricane that hit right before our trip in Sept '04)... anyhow, just drive straight through - ya get there quicker and can relax at WDW instead of spending the night in some hotel on the road.
